On Monday 29th July 20129 Kevin Randle wrote and posted a blog entry on his blog, A Different Perspective A COMMENTARY ON UFOS, PARANORMAL EVENTS, AND RELATED TOPICS. called 'Larry Warren, Rendlesham forest and an audio tape'. He discusses a book he wrote in 1995 called Project Moondust, Chapter 10 concentrates on Larry Warren and the fact his account has changed many times over the years leading up to publication. We can also state that that has continued, his account changes almost every time he tells it. Occasionally there are merely little details that are different, such as how many people were in the groups who were out in the forest and surrounding areas during the incidents in 1980 that have now become known as The Rendlesham Forest Incidents. Sometimes it is groups of four, sometimes it is groups of five, almost insignificant and not worth bothering with you might think, but the details matter.
Warren has two narratives about how his day panned out leading up to the events. In one narrative he is in Germany yet flying back on the 27th of December to start duty on the 28th, the other narrative he says he was on base, off duty and spent the day in Ipswich. He got to Ipswich in a car with his friends, he also went on the bus. We could say those details are insignificant but they are not are they? He either got a lift or got the bus or he was in Germany or on a plane.
Kevin wrote;
'In 1995, I wrote a book, Project Moon Dust, in which I discussed the events at Rendlesham Forest in December 1980. It was an analysis that was based on the research that I done up to that point. For those who don’t know, back then, the case was quite confusing. Just who all was involved? How many days did the event last? Did anyone actually get close to an object or was it just lights in the forest? Lots of questions and only a few good answers.
To expand on this, I had spent some time in California with Russ Estes, a documentarian who was involved in the UFO community. According to him, Larry Warren had stayed with him for several months, and Estes, as a documentarian, sat him down in front of his camera, asking him about the activities at Bentwaters. Warren, to prove his credentials, provided the evidence, including photographs and paperwork that he was, in fact, a former member of the Air Force security force at Bentwaters. And, as we all now know, his presence at the base has been confirmed by Colonel Charles Halt, John Burroughs and Jim Penniston. All of them were clearly there as well.
So, what is the problem? Wasn’t it Warren who first told the story to Barry Greenwood and Larry Fawcett? Without Warren, telling the story as Art Wallace, providing the first of the details, the story might have remained buried forever. Warren sparked the interest that lead to the breaking of the cover up or so it seemed.
According to a couple of paragraphs posted on line by Philip Mantle, Warren had told Linda Moulton Howe that he hadn’t been direct involved, which changes the whole scenario. Mantle asked if any of us knew anything more about this'. [End Quote]
Now the post Kevin is referring to which Phil Mantle posted on his time line, is a transcript of a conversation between Linda Moulton Howe and Benton Jamieson in 1986. They were together and interview3ed Warren, they each has a tape recorder and the both recorded the conversation. To date this conversation has never been released as audio to the public. In Kevin's blog he mentions the fact that he was shown some video tapes by his friend Russ Estes. These have also never been shown in public.
The problem we have with that is that warren denies both. he denies the interviews ever took place with Estes or Howe and Jamieson. quite a few years ago now, I think in 2011, Linda Moulton Howe transcribed this conversation. At that time I was friends with Larry Warren and he asked me to act as a go between. Linda was to transcribe and publish sections, Warren was to respond to them and I was going to tidy up what he had written, punctuation, grammar, that is all, and then send them onto her. I was happy to do this, Linda was happy that Warren was going to respond to the things said and she was going to put them on her Earthfiles website which she did.
Warren responded to her once. he also asked for copies of the recording so he could hear it himself, she did not send a copy, nor did she even respond to the request. However, there is something that needs to be said. Warren did not deny this conversation had taken place. He did not reject the fact she had recorded the conversation. In fact there was a day when I recalled that Warren had given me a cassette he wanted me to transcribe. I hadn't done so but still had the tape in my possession. I wondered out loud if it was the recording of the conversation, he had told me that he did have a copy at one point, but he had lost it. He got very agitated and annoyed and so I found the tape and we discovered it was a conversation between Peter and himself. Why am I telling you? To show you that initially he didn't say he never had this conversation. he now denies saying these things and without the audio nobody can disprove him, we have to take it as read. Literally.
Not long after Kevin published his blog about having seen these video filmed by Estes, Philip Mantle published the blog on his Facebook page and then also produced scanned images of some of the pages from the book Project Moondust which showed people what it was that Kevin was referring to in his book. Obviously I cannot produce the whole chapter but I can give you some excerpts in a moment.
Obviously this was brought to Warren's attention and in his own inimitable style he responded thus; [QUUOTE]
"What Phd Randle has written is total BS PRODUCE THE AUDIO !..and had i said that , when my book was published 11 years later Mz howe would have been swinging from the trees with the rest of her Ufology monkeys.......never happened, why..because the text below is BULLSHIT with a steep agenda behind it!....If i DID say that and the AUDIO shows that i will fold...i never did thus I WONT !Phil , do you think im stupid ? its fine if you do......but for the second time in months you have chosen to disiminate LIES about myself (your Troll friends attacks upon my family and myself with regard to 9/11 and its aftermath) and now the above? oh right your duty bound lol give me a effin break fella. the above is total mis dirrection from Phd Randle whom ive met twice and whom was upset he wasent in the credits of my book (as he winged to me at the bar at some confrence in the states years back) yup thats true...and pathetic as many faces in THAT field are and both pro and con at that.as for robbins and his pod cast...any clown can do one these days (want a list of clowns)and Robbins disavowing me.......well one would when one was up to no good whilst the principal was out of the country..and then the ex pat asked the publisher for an audit !....more on that to come....again like a number of your pals like the Troll Young , ANYTHING will be done to attack a stronger one (that would be me) from a great distance...those days end soon and i feel some Face to face time and debate is in order...you up for it Phil ?how bout your steller pals oh right...you have no card in this game, and hold no grudge or opinion !...Knock it off...focus on what ever it is you and your people do and stop fucking with my Name for your own ends...does your boy calvin even have a clue that you dont beleive in UFOs to start with ? good lord...any way its hot...and is gonna get hotter...so behave will ya..thats 2 strikes and in base ball that leves you one . oh and the film is out on............sunspots sunspots--------;;;;;;[[p';'.'p[p;.[p][;.;p[;'[p'/.';you have a beef .............Just ask..and stop playing games you for one i though better of...best to you and yours Larry" [END QUOTE]
What I can glean from the above diatribe is this. He is denying he had that conversation with Howe and also Estes and the fact that nobody has ever produced these tapes publicly, they don't actually exist and both are lying and have a deep agenda. Kevin is lying and everything he says is misdirection and Kevin is just peeved that he wasn't mentioned in the Credits of Left at East Gate. I think the next bit is something along the lines that Peter ?Robbins was up to no good while he (Warren) was out of the country and that he (Warren) was the reason the book Left at East Gate was pulled. Even though it was Peter who brought to the attention of the publisher, the research I had done and some digging of his own that brought him to the conclusion that I was right, Warren was lying. The book was suspended for investigations into inaccuracies in October, a few weeks after the suspension Warren wrote on his Facebook page that he had asked the publisher to pull the book, so that chronology proves that it wasn't until after the book was suspended he asked for it to be pulled from publication. The rest is just hot air and insults. Not worth breaking my brain over.
So Kevin Randle is a liar, Linda Moulton Howe is a liar, Peter Robbins is a liar, Georgina Bruni was a liar, I am a liar, everyone is a liar apart from Warren (according to Warren) who has 100% been caught lying many times over many years by many people and we all have an agenda. For no reason whatsoever. Oh apart from my agenda is that I love Larry Warren and flipped because i couldn't have him.
So what is so awful about these tapes? What has been said? Rendlesham expert Ronnie Dugdale provided the transcript of the conversation with Linda Moulton Howe and Benton Jamieson and the reason it is so problematic for Warren is that in it he admitted lying and telloing Adrian Bustinzas story and stated that he was not involved in the other nights, he was part of a seperate night altogether. Well Halt and co did not go out into the forest twice but Warren states he saw Halt and his party move off and he went off in another direction after handing in his weapon. A weapon I am pretty sure he was not qualified to carry which casts doubt on his entire narrative.
In a video filmed by Anthony James of the UFO group EMUFORA talk Warren and Robbins gave in 1994 Warren showed a document he got when he tried to reenlist which states he was discharged by the USAF Air Training Command Surgeon on September 17th 1981, by reason of congenital, partial ankylosis radioulnar joint, proximal, bilateral (cannot fully extend his right arm). One has to wonder how this would actually be discovered. If he had a disability then he wouldn't have been able to fire his weapon and therefore wouldn't have been on duty. Nobody can remember seeing him out in the field and the only comments about him being seen on duty were in the Warehouse and then when he was picking rocks on Zicklers punishment detail. Something else he denies even though he mentioned it during the conversation both Linda Moulton Howe and Benton Jamieson recorded during that interview in 1986.
In 1986, Ben Jamison and I were trying to understand all the discrepancies about dates and different descriptions of events by at least half a dozen military personnel who had by then been interviewed by reporter Chuck De Caro for a CNN Special Investigations broadcast about the 1980 RAF Bentwaters events and apparent government cover-up. I have also discussed with author Peter Robbins my reprinting in the Earthfiles Real X-Files the following 1986 interview with Larry Warren because Larry revealed for the first time to Ben Jamison and me that he was talking about not only his own firsthand experience, but had mixed in with his descriptions the trauma of Sgt. Adrian Bustinza that left Adrian sobbing on his bunk bed. Larry explained that Sgt. Bustinza did not want to talk to anyone, so Larry said he would get Adrian's story out mixed with his own in order to protect Adrian. To date, Sgt. Bustinza has never spoken about his own experiences on or off the record. Back in 1986, Larry insisted there was only one night of events on December 27, 1980. We now know from so many other USAF personnel, who were also involved in the RAF Bentwaters phenomena, that there were definitely 72 hours of events from the early morning of December 26 to December 28, 1980 - and even beyond into January 1981. [ See July 29, 2005 Earthfiles. ] I began by asking Larry Warren how much of what he was going to tell us was conscious, given the 1983 first releases as “Art Wallace” in which he said he “seemed to black out” while standing next to a craft from which non-human beings emerged
May 18, 1986, Larry Warren, New Haven, Connecticut: “I was conscious all of the way. Obviously, there are things you don’t know about this. Never unconscious then. I’ve never been unconscious ever. SO THE STORY ABOUT YOUR WAKING UP MUDDY AND WET AS YOU SAID IN THE BBC VIDEOTAPE – YOU SAID, ‘I WAS LOOKING AT MY SHADOW AND IT MOVED. AND THEN I BLACKED OUT.’ TO ME, THAT WOULD BE GOING UNCONSCIOUS. Right, but it’s not true! What was happening at that time, I didn’t know who I was dealing with. I do know how things happen around this phenomena and how people can be dishonest. I thought at the time the best way to talk about what I saw was to talk about the incident of the ship. The easiest way to omit an alien or any life form was to say I blacked out.
WHAT TROUBLES ME IS WHY WOULD I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO LISTEN FOR LARRY WARREN’S STORY TO CHANGE? I can assure you that I never intentionally – well, I did change the story and I did lie intentionally twice. One time was to protect myself and one time was hoping that I would be joined by more people and they could tell their underground experience. I thought I paved the way because I thought if I said it secondhand - if there is something to it, I don’t know. I could have been given misinformation about this and I thought there is no way anyone is going to know. Larry Warren Says He Did Not Black Out, But Is Uncertain of Dates and Times SO, YOUR SAYING YOU SAW THE SHADOW AND THEN BLACKED OUT WAS YOUR FIRST LIE? It was to protect me. I lied about the fact that I blacked out. But I was just not saying what happened. Larry Fawcett thought I was lying about that and this was with the BBC in October 1983. Fawcett in Clear Intent printed that and they knew well in advance that wasn’t the way it was (that Larry did not black out). I didn’t know if I wanted to take the ball and talk about aliens. I really didn’t. Talking about spaceships was hard enough. People think you’re nuts.
OK, LET’S PICK UP WITH COL. GORDON WILLIAMS AND PEOPLE WITH HIM IN YOUR HYPNOSIS SESSION WITH FRED MAX. I AM QUOTING FROM THE TRANSCRIPT: ‘Col. Williams is there. Who is Col. Williams? The commander. Is there anyone with him? Men are with him. You are all right near this craft? Yes. Nobody is talking yet? Everyone is in groups. Do you hear helicopters when they fly? Yes. Do you hear dogs barking in the distance? Yes.’ THEN THERE IS SOMETHING THAT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND AND YOU ARE SAYING, ‘… under it.’ FRED MAX ASKS, ‘What do you mean? People under what? The ship. How do you know that? I see them. How many? There are four. Do they look like people? No. What do they look like? Kids, small. How tall? They are in the air. Who is in the air? They are. Independent of their craft? Yes. How are they doing that? I don’t know. Are you scared? A little. Funny, there are three in front of Col. Williams and four in front of us.’ LARRY WARREN: That means there were seven alien beings there? No, no! Then I was lying for some reason. That’s not true.
UNLESS IT WAS AN IMAGE THAT YOU HAD AND NOW YOU ARE REPRESSING WHAT HAPPENED? That’s not true. If I said that, then I lied for some reason (in Fred Max hypnosis).
Warren has two narratives about how his day panned out leading up to the events. In one narrative he is in Germany yet flying back on the 27th of December to start duty on the 28th, the other narrative he says he was on base, off duty and spent the day in Ipswich. He got to Ipswich in a car with his friends, he also went on the bus. We could say those details are insignificant but they are not are they? He either got a lift or got the bus or he was in Germany or on a plane.
Kevin wrote;
'In 1995, I wrote a book, Project Moon Dust, in which I discussed the events at Rendlesham Forest in December 1980. It was an analysis that was based on the research that I done up to that point. For those who don’t know, back then, the case was quite confusing. Just who all was involved? How many days did the event last? Did anyone actually get close to an object or was it just lights in the forest? Lots of questions and only a few good answers.
To expand on this, I had spent some time in California with Russ Estes, a documentarian who was involved in the UFO community. According to him, Larry Warren had stayed with him for several months, and Estes, as a documentarian, sat him down in front of his camera, asking him about the activities at Bentwaters. Warren, to prove his credentials, provided the evidence, including photographs and paperwork that he was, in fact, a former member of the Air Force security force at Bentwaters. And, as we all now know, his presence at the base has been confirmed by Colonel Charles Halt, John Burroughs and Jim Penniston. All of them were clearly there as well.
So, what is the problem? Wasn’t it Warren who first told the story to Barry Greenwood and Larry Fawcett? Without Warren, telling the story as Art Wallace, providing the first of the details, the story might have remained buried forever. Warren sparked the interest that lead to the breaking of the cover up or so it seemed.
According to a couple of paragraphs posted on line by Philip Mantle, Warren had told Linda Moulton Howe that he hadn’t been direct involved, which changes the whole scenario. Mantle asked if any of us knew anything more about this'. [End Quote]
Now the post Kevin is referring to which Phil Mantle posted on his time line, is a transcript of a conversation between Linda Moulton Howe and Benton Jamieson in 1986. They were together and interview3ed Warren, they each has a tape recorder and the both recorded the conversation. To date this conversation has never been released as audio to the public. In Kevin's blog he mentions the fact that he was shown some video tapes by his friend Russ Estes. These have also never been shown in public.
The problem we have with that is that warren denies both. he denies the interviews ever took place with Estes or Howe and Jamieson. quite a few years ago now, I think in 2011, Linda Moulton Howe transcribed this conversation. At that time I was friends with Larry Warren and he asked me to act as a go between. Linda was to transcribe and publish sections, Warren was to respond to them and I was going to tidy up what he had written, punctuation, grammar, that is all, and then send them onto her. I was happy to do this, Linda was happy that Warren was going to respond to the things said and she was going to put them on her Earthfiles website which she did.
Warren responded to her once. he also asked for copies of the recording so he could hear it himself, she did not send a copy, nor did she even respond to the request. However, there is something that needs to be said. Warren did not deny this conversation had taken place. He did not reject the fact she had recorded the conversation. In fact there was a day when I recalled that Warren had given me a cassette he wanted me to transcribe. I hadn't done so but still had the tape in my possession. I wondered out loud if it was the recording of the conversation, he had told me that he did have a copy at one point, but he had lost it. He got very agitated and annoyed and so I found the tape and we discovered it was a conversation between Peter and himself. Why am I telling you? To show you that initially he didn't say he never had this conversation. he now denies saying these things and without the audio nobody can disprove him, we have to take it as read. Literally.
Not long after Kevin published his blog about having seen these video filmed by Estes, Philip Mantle published the blog on his Facebook page and then also produced scanned images of some of the pages from the book Project Moondust which showed people what it was that Kevin was referring to in his book. Obviously I cannot produce the whole chapter but I can give you some excerpts in a moment.
Obviously this was brought to Warren's attention and in his own inimitable style he responded thus; [QUUOTE]
"What Phd Randle has written is total BS PRODUCE THE AUDIO !..and had i said that , when my book was published 11 years later Mz howe would have been swinging from the trees with the rest of her Ufology monkeys.......never happened, why..because the text below is BULLSHIT with a steep agenda behind it!....If i DID say that and the AUDIO shows that i will fold...i never did thus I WONT !Phil , do you think im stupid ? its fine if you do......but for the second time in months you have chosen to disiminate LIES about myself (your Troll friends attacks upon my family and myself with regard to 9/11 and its aftermath) and now the above? oh right your duty bound lol give me a effin break fella. the above is total mis dirrection from Phd Randle whom ive met twice and whom was upset he wasent in the credits of my book (as he winged to me at the bar at some confrence in the states years back) yup thats true...and pathetic as many faces in THAT field are and both pro and con at that.as for robbins and his pod cast...any clown can do one these days (want a list of clowns)and Robbins disavowing me.......well one would when one was up to no good whilst the principal was out of the country..and then the ex pat asked the publisher for an audit !....more on that to come....again like a number of your pals like the Troll Young , ANYTHING will be done to attack a stronger one (that would be me) from a great distance...those days end soon and i feel some Face to face time and debate is in order...you up for it Phil ?how bout your steller pals oh right...you have no card in this game, and hold no grudge or opinion !...Knock it off...focus on what ever it is you and your people do and stop fucking with my Name for your own ends...does your boy calvin even have a clue that you dont beleive in UFOs to start with ? good lord...any way its hot...and is gonna get hotter...so behave will ya..thats 2 strikes and in base ball that leves you one . oh and the film is out on............sunspots sunspots--------;;;;;;[[p';'.'p[p;.[p][;.;p[;'[p'/.';you have a beef .............Just ask..and stop playing games you for one i though better of...best to you and yours Larry" [END QUOTE]
What I can glean from the above diatribe is this. He is denying he had that conversation with Howe and also Estes and the fact that nobody has ever produced these tapes publicly, they don't actually exist and both are lying and have a deep agenda. Kevin is lying and everything he says is misdirection and Kevin is just peeved that he wasn't mentioned in the Credits of Left at East Gate. I think the next bit is something along the lines that Peter ?Robbins was up to no good while he (Warren) was out of the country and that he (Warren) was the reason the book Left at East Gate was pulled. Even though it was Peter who brought to the attention of the publisher, the research I had done and some digging of his own that brought him to the conclusion that I was right, Warren was lying. The book was suspended for investigations into inaccuracies in October, a few weeks after the suspension Warren wrote on his Facebook page that he had asked the publisher to pull the book, so that chronology proves that it wasn't until after the book was suspended he asked for it to be pulled from publication. The rest is just hot air and insults. Not worth breaking my brain over.
So Kevin Randle is a liar, Linda Moulton Howe is a liar, Peter Robbins is a liar, Georgina Bruni was a liar, I am a liar, everyone is a liar apart from Warren (according to Warren) who has 100% been caught lying many times over many years by many people and we all have an agenda. For no reason whatsoever. Oh apart from my agenda is that I love Larry Warren and flipped because i couldn't have him.
So what is so awful about these tapes? What has been said? Rendlesham expert Ronnie Dugdale provided the transcript of the conversation with Linda Moulton Howe and Benton Jamieson and the reason it is so problematic for Warren is that in it he admitted lying and telloing Adrian Bustinzas story and stated that he was not involved in the other nights, he was part of a seperate night altogether. Well Halt and co did not go out into the forest twice but Warren states he saw Halt and his party move off and he went off in another direction after handing in his weapon. A weapon I am pretty sure he was not qualified to carry which casts doubt on his entire narrative.
In a video filmed by Anthony James of the UFO group EMUFORA talk Warren and Robbins gave in 1994 Warren showed a document he got when he tried to reenlist which states he was discharged by the USAF Air Training Command Surgeon on September 17th 1981, by reason of congenital, partial ankylosis radioulnar joint, proximal, bilateral (cannot fully extend his right arm). One has to wonder how this would actually be discovered. If he had a disability then he wouldn't have been able to fire his weapon and therefore wouldn't have been on duty. Nobody can remember seeing him out in the field and the only comments about him being seen on duty were in the Warehouse and then when he was picking rocks on Zicklers punishment detail. Something else he denies even though he mentioned it during the conversation both Linda Moulton Howe and Benton Jamieson recorded during that interview in 1986.
In 1986, Ben Jamison and I were trying to understand all the discrepancies about dates and different descriptions of events by at least half a dozen military personnel who had by then been interviewed by reporter Chuck De Caro for a CNN Special Investigations broadcast about the 1980 RAF Bentwaters events and apparent government cover-up. I have also discussed with author Peter Robbins my reprinting in the Earthfiles Real X-Files the following 1986 interview with Larry Warren because Larry revealed for the first time to Ben Jamison and me that he was talking about not only his own firsthand experience, but had mixed in with his descriptions the trauma of Sgt. Adrian Bustinza that left Adrian sobbing on his bunk bed. Larry explained that Sgt. Bustinza did not want to talk to anyone, so Larry said he would get Adrian's story out mixed with his own in order to protect Adrian. To date, Sgt. Bustinza has never spoken about his own experiences on or off the record. Back in 1986, Larry insisted there was only one night of events on December 27, 1980. We now know from so many other USAF personnel, who were also involved in the RAF Bentwaters phenomena, that there were definitely 72 hours of events from the early morning of December 26 to December 28, 1980 - and even beyond into January 1981. [ See July 29, 2005 Earthfiles. ] I began by asking Larry Warren how much of what he was going to tell us was conscious, given the 1983 first releases as “Art Wallace” in which he said he “seemed to black out” while standing next to a craft from which non-human beings emerged
May 18, 1986, Larry Warren, New Haven, Connecticut: “I was conscious all of the way. Obviously, there are things you don’t know about this. Never unconscious then. I’ve never been unconscious ever. SO THE STORY ABOUT YOUR WAKING UP MUDDY AND WET AS YOU SAID IN THE BBC VIDEOTAPE – YOU SAID, ‘I WAS LOOKING AT MY SHADOW AND IT MOVED. AND THEN I BLACKED OUT.’ TO ME, THAT WOULD BE GOING UNCONSCIOUS. Right, but it’s not true! What was happening at that time, I didn’t know who I was dealing with. I do know how things happen around this phenomena and how people can be dishonest. I thought at the time the best way to talk about what I saw was to talk about the incident of the ship. The easiest way to omit an alien or any life form was to say I blacked out.
WHAT TROUBLES ME IS WHY WOULD I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO LISTEN FOR LARRY WARREN’S STORY TO CHANGE? I can assure you that I never intentionally – well, I did change the story and I did lie intentionally twice. One time was to protect myself and one time was hoping that I would be joined by more people and they could tell their underground experience. I thought I paved the way because I thought if I said it secondhand - if there is something to it, I don’t know. I could have been given misinformation about this and I thought there is no way anyone is going to know. Larry Warren Says He Did Not Black Out, But Is Uncertain of Dates and Times SO, YOUR SAYING YOU SAW THE SHADOW AND THEN BLACKED OUT WAS YOUR FIRST LIE? It was to protect me. I lied about the fact that I blacked out. But I was just not saying what happened. Larry Fawcett thought I was lying about that and this was with the BBC in October 1983. Fawcett in Clear Intent printed that and they knew well in advance that wasn’t the way it was (that Larry did not black out). I didn’t know if I wanted to take the ball and talk about aliens. I really didn’t. Talking about spaceships was hard enough. People think you’re nuts.
OK, LET’S PICK UP WITH COL. GORDON WILLIAMS AND PEOPLE WITH HIM IN YOUR HYPNOSIS SESSION WITH FRED MAX. I AM QUOTING FROM THE TRANSCRIPT: ‘Col. Williams is there. Who is Col. Williams? The commander. Is there anyone with him? Men are with him. You are all right near this craft? Yes. Nobody is talking yet? Everyone is in groups. Do you hear helicopters when they fly? Yes. Do you hear dogs barking in the distance? Yes.’ THEN THERE IS SOMETHING THAT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND AND YOU ARE SAYING, ‘… under it.’ FRED MAX ASKS, ‘What do you mean? People under what? The ship. How do you know that? I see them. How many? There are four. Do they look like people? No. What do they look like? Kids, small. How tall? They are in the air. Who is in the air? They are. Independent of their craft? Yes. How are they doing that? I don’t know. Are you scared? A little. Funny, there are three in front of Col. Williams and four in front of us.’ LARRY WARREN: That means there were seven alien beings there? No, no! Then I was lying for some reason. That’s not true.
UNLESS IT WAS AN IMAGE THAT YOU HAD AND NOW YOU ARE REPRESSING WHAT HAPPENED? That’s not true. If I said that, then I lied for some reason (in Fred Max hypnosis).
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