On Sunday the 9th of September 2019 I spoke at the Halt Returns to Woodbridge conference in Suffolk, England. I used various written works, interviews and conference talks to show Warren is a liar. that he tells contradictory versions of events and blatantly stole and told many lies about the time he spent with Adrian Bustinza.
One of the pieces of written material I used was the transcript of the conversation he had with Linda Moulton Howe and Ben Jamieson in 1986. To my mind this is one of the most important interviews because of the content. He says he took Adrian's account and told it as his own and told many more ridiculous stories including how Adrian had told him he had seen a giant something in a cape in the forest. Warren admitted he never even seen those space things. Meaning, he saw nothing, Adrian saw it all, Adrian told him and warren told it as if it was his own. If it turns out to be untrue it is because Adrian Bustinza lied to him. For many years he has said he never said he saw aliens, he has stated on stage in front of hundreds of people the underground thing never happened, he never said it, apart from the fact he wrote an entire chapter in the book Left at East Gate.
I knew he would say he hadn't had this conversation so I showed two screenshots of the emails between myself, Larry Warren and Linda where he thanks Linda for finding the tape. As you can see in my email I asked for a copy of the tape, one was not forthcoming. I am hoping that will change in the near future. For now you will have to read the transcript without Audio. This transcript has been available since the beginning of 2010 on Linda's Earthfiles site. Larry actually responded once so he can't now say he never said anything in it. I will post the first response after the lengthy transcript.
“Art Wallace” story about his experiences in the RAF Bentwaters Rendlesham Forest phenomena on December 27, 1980, I had an invitation by New York mathematics professor, Benton Jamison, to join him privately in New Haven, Connecticut, for a discussion with “Art Wallace,” former USAF Airman 1st class, Larry Warren. Our another Larry Warren Recorded Interview On May 18, 1986 Two and a half years after the joint interview with two tape recorders running was on May 18, 1986.
Until now, I have never made that recording public. But I think it is extremely valuable to share this 24-year-old interview now after more RAF Bentwaters eyewitnesses have come forward, including more about the December 27th Shift Commander's fear and tears after a light entered her car, and Col. Charles Halt going on the record in a June 25, 2009, press release to say the light phenomena encountered by USAF military personnel December 26 - 28, 1980, were “extraterrestrial in origin.” In 1986, Ben Jamison and I were trying to understand all the discrepancies about dates and different descriptions of events by at least half a dozen military personnel who had by then been interviewed by reporter Chuck De Caro for a CNN Special Investigations broadcast about the 1980 RAF Bentwaters events and apparent government cover-up.
I have also discussed with author Peter Robbins my reprinting in the Earthfiles Real X-Files the following 1986 interview with Larry Warren because Larry revealed for the first time to Ben Jamison and me that he was talking about not only his own firsthand experience, but had mixed in with his descriptions the trauma of Sgt. Adrian Bustinza that left Adrian sobbing on his bunk bed.
Larry explained that Sgt. Bustinza did not want to talk to anyone, so Larry said he would get Adrian's story out mixed with his own in order to protect Adrian. To date, Sgt. Bustinza has never spoken about his own experiences on or off the record. Back in 1986, Larry insisted there was only one night of events on December 27, 1980.
We now know from so many other USAF personnel, who were also involved in the RAF Bentwaters phenomena, that there were definitely 72 hours of events from the early morning of December 26 to December 28, 1980 - and even beyond into January 1981. [ See July 29, 2005 Earthfiles. ]
I began by asking Larry Warren how much of what he was going to tell us was conscious, given the 1983 first releases as “Art Wallace” in which he said he “seemed to black out” while standing next to a craft from which non-human beings emerged.
Interview: May 18, 1986, Larry Warren, New Haven, Connecticut: “I was conscious all of the way. Obviously, there are things you don’t know about this. Never unconscious then. I’ve never been unconscious ever.
{Sacha edit. the capitalised questions are LMH, further along in the transcript the capitalisation ends and the questioner is named, either Warren, Howe, Jamieson}
SO THE STORY ABOUT YOUR WAKING UP MUDDY AND WET AS YOU SAID IN THE BBC VIDEOTAPE – YOU SAID, ‘I WAS LOOKING AT MY SHADOW AND IT MOVED. AND THEN I BLACKED OUT.’ TO ME, THAT WOULD BE GOING UNCONSCIOUS.
Right, but it’s not true! What was happening at that time, I didn’t know who I was dealing with. I do know how things happen around this phenomena and how people can be dishonest. I thought at the time the best way to talk about what I saw was to talk about the incident of the ship.
The easiest way to omit an alien or any life form was to say I blacked out. That was simple. As soon as the BBC interview finished in New York, Larry Fawcett (co- author Clear Intent: The UFO Cover-Up © May 1984 by Lawrence Fawcett and Barry J. Greenwood) and I were coming backing in the car on I-95 into Connecticut. Fawcett said to me, ‘I know there is more. You are not telling me everything.’ I said, ‘Larry, that was it! I don’t want to say anymore.’ Larry said, ‘You didn’t black out. You saw aliens, didn’t you?’ I said, ‘Yes, I saw something.’ Now Clear Intent was going to print soon after and I said any inconsistencies in my Bentwaters story was to protect myself that one time with the BBC. And then Larry was pushing me with, ‘I know there is more to it. I’ve been told by other people there was more to it.’ There was never any unconsciousness for me. I was conscious the whole time – unless something happened I’m not aware of. But my saying I blacked out saved me at that time from having to talk about any life form when this Bentwaters case was not that well known.
ON SEPTEMBER 19, 1983, BILL MOORE (Roswell 1947 crash investigator and author) VISITED ME IN DENVER. I HAD STARTED ON THE HBO DOCUMENTARY PROJECT, UFOS: THE E. T. FACTOR, THAT SPRING. IN THAT SEPTEMBER 1983 MEETING, MOORE GAVE ME DESCRIPTIONS OF TWO DIFFERENT NON-HUMANS AT BENTWATERS. BY OCTOBER 1983, I WAS IN WASHINGTON, D. C., AND MET WITH A GOVERNMENT GUY WHO SAID HE HAD SEEN PHOTOGRAPHS FROM ONE OF THE NIGHTS AT RAF BENTWATERS AND THAT ONE OF THE TYPES WAS ‘GROTESQUE’ AND THE GOVERNMENT DIDN’T WANT EARTH TO BE INTRODUCED TO SUCH E.T.S. INSTEAD, THERE WAS AN EFFORT TO TAILOR EVERYTHING AROUND THE GREY TYPES THAT WERE ALSO DESCRIBED THERE AT BENTWATERS. THEN IN FEBRUARY 1984 ABOUT FOUR MONTHS LATER, I WAS TOLD THIS: ‘LARRY WARREN’S STORY WILL CHANGE BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN TOLD TO MUDDY THE WATERS.’
No, my story has never changed.
DID ANYONE FROM AN INTELLIGENCE AGENCY OR MILITARY UNIT ORDER YOU TO MUDDY THE WATERS?
No, they just said, ‘Don’t talk about it.’ It was that simple on the RAF Bentwaters base the next morning in a debriefing. That was it.
AT RAF BENTWATERS? Yes. BUT THERE WAS THE RANDOLPH TELEPHONE CALL WHERE THE GUY SUGGESTED THAT MAYBE IT WOULD BE EASIER IF YOU LAID OFF OF ALL THIS BECAUSE HE COULDN’T GET SOME OF YOUR RECORDS?
That is true. He was a tech sergeant or something. I spoke to a captain at great length earlier in he day. I was fed up with trying after I had just gotten back to Connecticut at that time. It was in the fall. WAS IT 1983? I think it was fall 1983 because I had just started talking after I met Betty Andreasson (abduction syndrome), who is now Betty Andreasson Luca. The circumstance about how this all happened and I came out as a source of information – it was a fluke.
SO YOU HAD NOT TALKED WITH ANYONE BEFORE BETTY ANDREASSON?
Some of my friends and family – and only my mother. I didn’t tell my father about it because I didn’t think he would believe me. But after he saw what was happening to me afterward – my father is an executive, a senior vice president with an insurance company in Connecticut. He’s a very straight type of guy, completely by the book. I didn’t want him to think I had been thrown out of the USAF for anything derogatory because I wasn’t thrown out. I have a fully honorable discharge, great service record. But eventually I had to sit down with my dad and say, ‘Here’s what happened.’ He told me, ‘I have no choice but to believe you.’ And then we got into other things and he found more and more and he began to lose a few friends himself because he had some highly placed government friends and things changed. But my family was basically supportive.
Debriefing by “Armed Forces Intelligence Service” What happened to me – the only time I was told was the next day after the incident – and I’m on the record with you now – I was told as we were all debriefed, signed a bunch of papers. The guys who did the debriefing and collected papers were from the Armed Forces Intelligence Service and I also heard Naval Intelligence different times, but the debriefers identified themselves as Armed Forces Intelligence, whatever that is. They were in plain clothes. It was not an intense thing where you’re under a spotlight. There was some laughing and some jokes, very light – they never mentioned the aliens or UFO – nothing like that.
GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT THEY SAID.
A lot of it was going over military rhetoric about regulations concerning dissemination of information and how we were not to use the phones to talk about the incident, how we were not supposed to write in letters. I sent two letters to my mother, which she never received. That was the first time someone didn’t get a letter from me. If I get defensive or you hear a tone in my voice, it’s only because of five years of this. I know Ben here. Ben has heard a million different things. He knows my end of this story. I knew him ten or eleven years ago when I was a kid. Anyway, back on misinformation or if I was ever told to talk to muddy the waters – never once! The debriefing thing was more or less that we saw a film – which I keep away from – but we saw.
I HAVE WHOLE NOTES ABOUT THAT FILM.
Well, I saw it, I watched it. There was no narration. It was a half-hour or 45 minutes or maybe an hour film. I don’t remember the length because it was – to me, the way I look at it – I believed in UFOs. I don’t know how intensely, but I had seen something in 1974 with my mother. That was the first time to see something, but ever since I was a kid I’ve had an interest. I read a book on the subject just as a kid’s interest. Then that interest faded through the late 1970s – nothing. I just went on and didn’t think about it anymore. But anyway, the debriefing was very mellow and light until the very end. At the very end, our Security Police Commander came in the room, Malcolm Zickler. The intelligence people there, whoever they were, they looked civilian, turned around and they said to us as a group, ‘You can push this. You can leave the service and you can tell what happened, but it’s going to gain you no ground. People are going to laugh at you.’ And they never mentioned the name where the incident took place, Rendlesham Forest! People were getting mad saying, ‘Well, what the hell happened to us? What did we see?’
“Bullets Are Cheap” Malcolm Zickler and the other intelligence agents got around with all this propaganda about our loyalty to the country and went on different subjects and mental games, you know? Zickler comes out and says, ‘If you make it too difficult for us,’ – and this is the one quote I’ll remember for the rest of my life – ‘If you make it too difficult for us, bullets are cheap.’ And we all laughed. That was the sick part of it – we all laughed along. They said, ‘The government – there are millions of ways that your life can be made miserable if you make it miserable for us.’ While everyone was laughing, they said, ‘Sign these papers, a whole hoard of papers, a lot of which we were not allowed to read! We had to just keep going and going with our signatures on all pre-typed – everyone of us had our own personal pre-typed report and everyone had the same thing on each of our papers. We were not allowed to associate with each other publicly or privately. We were to call to a number every morning at 11:30 AM (because I worked nights) to check in. That was another strange thing. You’d call in – I got away from it for awhile because I went to Egypt, but I mean, the day after the debriefing, we all kept calling in and you’d get this voice. First it was Central Security Control (CSC). I said, ‘This is Airman Warren.’ They would say,’Just a minute’ and clicked the phone and it would go to something else in another relay. All of a sudden it would be picked up by a guy who sounded like a diamond salesman back here in Connecticut – that kind of voice. He would get on the phone and say, ‘How are you doing?’ I said, ‘Fine.’ He’d ask, ‘Are you sleeping well?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Are you talking to anybody or is anyone asking you questions?’ And I said, ‘Yes, of course, all the time, every minute! You go into the chow hall or a bowling alley and people are on you because they know the shift you worked. And a lot of people were joking and making fun. We were checked for radiation, too, with a Geiger counter. None of us had a reading, but this kid had something in his pocket or hand. The Disaster Preparedness people ran a Geiger counter and took whatever the kid had away from him. I don’t know if it was a rock or what it was, but it gave readings and the kid had picked it up from the Rendlesham Forest site of all the phenomena. What he had, I don’t know. And all of that was rather informal.
DO YOU HAVE ANY MEMORY OF THE PEOPLE WHO DEBRIEFED YOU? No. DID THEY USE ANY NAMES?
Yes, they identified themselves as Agent ... and then their last names, Special Agent whatever. I can remember them. One guy had black hair that was all on the side. Another guy had hair kind of like mine with a receding hairline, blondish hair with gray - older, I’d say 35 to 40 years of age, tall, heavy set, big guys. WERE ALL THE AGENTS TALL? Yes, there were two of them, very tall. They looked like your CIA types in the movies. I’d never seen anyone like that before then. I’m 5-feet 9-inches, so they had to be 6 feet or a little taller. I think one guy had to be 6-feet 4-inches, tall like Ben Jamison is.
WERE YOU THE ONLY ONE IN THE ROOM WITH THOSE TWO?
No, it was with a whole group. I was never spoken to alone ever. I had a gate guard tell me, at one of the main gates of RAF Bentwaters that is no longer there for some reason, he told me later on that afternoon after we had been debriefed, he said: ‘I’ve never seen so much Naval Intelligence here on this base.’ We had the Secretary of the Air Force and I saw the United States of America official jet. We had some big people come and I also saw Carter- it was in the transition
period between Presidents Carter and Reagan. Carter had a report on the base that morning after events about what happened – or at least that was told to us. We were told that the U. S. President is fully aware of the circumstance and incidents happening here at RAF Bentwaters. That was the closest authorities got to saying we had really experienced something. But for the most part, they played it all down to us. And there was psychological warfare. You really felt your mind being twisted around! They debriefed different ranks at different times, too. I think I was very outspoken. I was taken off duty eventually, not for any derogatory reason. I was put into an administrative office for security police because I can type. They said they needed someone to fill in and I said I would be glad to. So, I did all this administrative stuff and I hated the job really, too. I should have gone to college, but I had signed up for six years! I didn’t want to do this (administrative work). But also because of the way they treated us after the Rendlesham incident. We were watched every minute. There were people trying to set up drug busts on me and I’m not a drug user. I had only smoked marijuana when I was in high school and only a couple of times. I’m not a saint. And I drank beer, but I’m not a drug user. And when I was in the U. S. Air Force, I used nothing.
BUT AFTER THE BENTWATERS EVENT, AUTHORITIES TRIED TO CONCOCT A SCHEME TO DISCREDIT YOU?
On the base after the incident, I was in an office and kept talking. Every time I saw someone come in, I would start to mention what happened and they would look at me like in that movie about the Invasion of the Body Snatchers and - people changed! They just weren’t the same people. I couldn’t talk to – Adrian Bustinza was the one I knew really the most out of this. I had only been on base about one month when the incident happened. I had been in the U. S. Air Force for only ten or eleven months by then. Anyway, in 1983, I had been trying to get back into the military. I had gone to Congressmen. I had gone to Senators. I called the Pentagon. I sent letters out, including to the U. S. President. I had gone through every aspect. I was becoming an idiot because I was so obsessed with why is this happening to me. And I never put together at that point in 1982 to 1983 why I was being red taped and brick walled everywhere I went. Most military people I knew were not surprised. They said, ‘You’re pushing it? You’re talking about it?!’ I had a guy tell me, ‘I’m amazed you are still walking.’ I said, ‘I don’t like to think of my government that way.’ But the people who were in charge were very smart, a lot smarter than the 20-year-old kid I was. At that age, you think, ‘Oh, I can take this on and I can win it.’ But I couldn’t.”
“THE ROOM FOR THE DEBRIEFING (WITH MALCOLM ZICKLER), WAS WHERE?
The room was in Chief of Security’s office (Maj. Malcolm Zickler).
JOHN BURROUGHS?
Halt told me that John Burroughs grabbed the craft.
WAS JOHN BURROUGHS IN YOUR DEBRIEFING? No. WAS ADRIAN BUSTINZA IN THE OFFICE DEBRIEFING?
Adrian was there. He was a Staff Sergeant.
DID SGT. BUSTINZA SEE THE SAME FILM YOU SAW AT RAF BENTWATERS AFTER HIS ALASKA EXPERIENCE?
[ More about film in subsequent report.] When we were out there and we were going through the field to the site (of phenomena) and before I knew what was going on, Adrian said to me, ‘This is just like what happened to me in Alaska.’ But when Larry Fawcett (Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, CAUS) talked to Adrian, Adrian said, ‘No, I made a mistake. I meant California, at a base in California.” But I thought he told me at Bentwaters that it was like what happened to him in Alaska. Whatever happened to him before, Adrian said there were a lot of people at RAF Bentwaters that were at his previous base with OSI (Air Force Office of Special Investigations).
WHICH NIGHT DO YOU THINK YOU HAD YOUR RAF BENTWATERS EXPERIENCE?
I’ve never put a date on it because I chose not to. All I’ve ever said is that it was after Christmas and before New Year’s and there was only one night I knew about. I thought it was the same night that Col. Halt was in Rendlesham Forest.
[ Editor's Note: That was definitely December 28, 1980. However, Larry Warren remembered coming across the Shift Commander being treated by a medic and the only known such event was Lt. Bonnie Tamplin in the early morning hours of December 27, 1980. December 26, 1980, Staff Sgt. Jim Penniston and Airman John Burroughs encountered black, triangular craft in Rendlesham Forest and had 45 minutes of missing time; December 28, 1980, John Burroughs and Sgt. Adrian Bustinza both remember running towards red-orange light that told John seemed to lift Burroughs up into it. See: July 17, 2009 Earthfiles Parts 1 - 6; and September 3 and 17, 2009 Earthfiles Parts 1 - 2. ]
You see, I was in USAF Security Police and that base was buzzing the next day. Someone even went to the trouble of making a false landing site with false marks on the ground so nothing would be detected. Those people making the false landing site told me they were sent to do this! I asked, ‘Why?’ It was like a game. There were so many rumors swirling on the base and you couldn’t say anything. But I called my mother the very next day and that’s when I got in trouble.
DO YOU REMEMBER THE SUN COMING UP?
I remember the whole thing from the beginning. The flight before me – I was getting ready to go on duty. We got a knock on the door. It was the Supervisor of Security Police and he said ‘We’ve got an alert status. It’s a full alert. At the time, we were having trouble with Russia possibly moving into Poland and we were going to have a lot of alerts. So, we asked, ‘Do we need chemical warfare equipment?’ He said, ‘No, just bring flak vests and your alert bag and go to the bus.’ So, we picked up the bus. The whole flight would go out for duty, the shift. [ Larry Warren was in D Flight.] But not Adrian Bustinza - he was not on my shift. He worked a different shift. My shift all got to Central Security Control (CSC) and when that other shift came off duty, we had guard mount and everything. Guard mount checked you to see if you were under the influence of drugs, alcohol or anything – if anything is wrong, you are not issued a weapon because we were around nuclear weapons. That’s another thing about the issue of being on drugs. You’re gone, jack! They give you tests and everything before you’re even out there in security.
I was put on a permanent post that is only manned during a base alert. It was called Perimeter Post 18. It’s at the very bottom of the RAF Bentwaters flight line. That post is designated in the event of enemy aircraft trying to land on the base, on the field, during an attack, and you’re supposed to shoot them down. You’d live about three minutes there, I think! At that post, I started to hear all the talk by walkie-talkie from the Weapons Storage Area (WSA). We had a tower there that was 80 feet tall and we were about six miles from RAF Woodbridge. They are talking about lights! They are saying they see a red light over – I didn’t know it was Rendlesham Forest at that moment - but over near RAF Woodbridge base near the woods. The Flight Chief got on (the walkie-talkie frequency) and wanted coordinates and directions. He seemed very interested and I’m looking up in the sky and I couldn’t see anything. But they were in a tower so they could look out that direction above the trees.
WHO WAS THE FLIGHT CHIEF?
Sgt. Bobbie Ball. He came on and asked for coordinates and directions. Now at this point, I’m standing there and I hear rustling – there was kind of a little hill and then a fence and then the road and then up to where my post was with the flight line. And here comes something running out of the darkness – it’s like a thundering herd of some sort and they are deer. They are coming down the fence and two deer shot off this way up the fence line toward the Rod and Gun Club. Two deer jumped over the fence and ran up past my post. I could have touched them! Down the hill, the deer jumped the fence again and disappeared in a field. They were scared! There was no aircraft flying that night at RAF Bentwaters – none! Then I got picked up from my Perimeter Post 18 by Lt. Englund and Sgt. Adrian Bustinza. We got in the truck. They had to clear permission for me to leave my post. We drove to the motor pool and that’s when strange stuff started to happen.
IF IT WAS THE END OF ADRIAN BUSTINZA’S SHIFT, WHY DO YOU THINK HE WAS WITH LT. ENGLUND TO PICK YOU UP?
Because Lt. Englund worked Bustinza’s shift. They had a sighting – Bustinza had had his sighting already.
COULD THIS BE THE NIGHT OF THE TAPE RECORDING WITH LT. HALT (December 28, 1980)?
There were a number of objects involved with the landing, I’m sure. What Col. Halt recorded – I know a lot of it because I was very close to what was going on. A lot of the transmissions, some were the people I was with. Just in transmissions, you could hear, ‘Can we have permission to enter?’ ‘No, not at this time.’
THIS IS PUZZLING TO ME. THE TAPE RECORDING THAT EVERYONE SEEMS TO AGREE IS REAL ...
Yes, it is real, 100%. ...
DESCRIBES MEN IN THE FOREST TRYING TO EITHER FOLLOW LIGHTS OR TO WATCH A LIGHT THAT IS MOVING THROUGH THE TREES. THAT’S VERY DIFFERENT FROM BOTH YOUR AND OTHER EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS OF THE ASPIRIN-SHAPED, 12-INCHES HIGH, 25 FEET WIDE, ALMOST TRANSPARENT OBJECT.
“Aspirin” Circle of Fog It was on the ground! People always said it floated, but it was not a solid thing. It was like a circle of fog! It was green and yellow and I always said it was 12 inches off the ground, but I meant it was 12 inches in height!
12 INCHES FROM THE GROUND UP.
Right. It never floated up in the air. It was like fog in a circle on the ground. I can tell you what definitely happened (that I experienced). John Burroughs and Adrian Bustinza and a third person I can’t name because I don’t know his name – they had seen an object just like Col. Halt’s report said down in the forest. They got permission to go out and had to leave weapons behind because it was off our USAF base territory. They get out there and see it and whatever happened as they got in close contact with it – at one point someone threw a big stick at it! I got this directly from the sources. It flew, kept maneuvering (in the trees) and would disappear at times and appear BEHIND them and then appear again IN FRONT! It was real mind boggling! I was also told that John Burroughs circled around, went down a little slope and then went up and the craft was kind of sitting there. The object was small. It was not the same thing I saw (aspirin-shaped fog). John Burroughs grabbed the craft, or touched it, and it moved. I don’t know if John was on it. There were no ramps. There was nothing. No windows. No identification on anything that was seen. John moved for a distance with the craft. It had a profound effect on him and John did not want to leave those woods. After like what I saw, you have no control. You are in awe! I handled it better than some officers that ran away. Now, think of that – I was an Airman 1st Class and there were some officers that ran off in the woods and leave you. This happened! Also, I could not move. I don’t know if it was from paralysis from fear or the shock of it. I knew what I was seeing! But I couldn't make it all register in my head somehow.
WERE PARTS OF YOUR BODY MOVING AND YOU DID NOT HAVE MENTAL CONTROL?
No, I had control. But I couldn’t do it as fast as I wanted. I had a watch. SLOW MOTION? I tried to look at my watch and I remember just numb – like everything fell asleep. I really felt weird! And other people did not feel that.
PROBABLY SELECTIVE MENTAL MANIPULATION – SOMETHING THAT THE NON-HUMANS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE VERY SKILLED AT DOING.
They must be skilled in a lot of things because I’ll tell you what happened. I was there – I know! This object came down. They saw it and it disappeared. They contacted Col. Halt, who came out with a number of people. General Gordon Williams was not involved yet. He was at a holiday party, a Christmas party. He was with a squadron that just came back from Germany and they were having a big celebration at the Officer’s Club. Gordon Williams got out there – remember I wasn’t on duty at this point. Col. Halt gets out there and this is Adrian Bustinza’s version of it. They all went out into the Rendlesham woods. They had Disaster Preparedness show up. They had Geiger counters and they found everything you hear on the tape (Halt’s audiotape). The landing site. The markings (in the ground).
IS THIS AROUND MIDNIGHT?
No, this first incident happened before midnight, around 10 PM. No matter what time Halt had on his report, the first part happened around 10 PM. YOU WERE WHERE THEN? I was still getting ready to go on duty.
AND GENERAL WILLIAMS IS AT THE CHRISTMAS PARTY.
Williams was at a Christmas party.
AND HALT AND BUSTINZA WERE TOGETHER?
Halt and Bustinza were together. Bustinza was security police who was patrolling a perimeter fence line. John Burroughs was like a cop-on-the-beat type of guy. And I
think Burroughs was the first to report it and they got a few people to go out into the woods. Now, the incident that happened to them happened. Col. Halt responded to it. They investigated. They found evidence that something set down in that forest.
IS IT YOUR IMPRESSION THAT IT’S AT THIS TIME THAT JOHN BURROUGHS HAS AN INTERACTION WITH THE LIGHT, SEPARATE FROM WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE ‘ASPIRIN’? YOU SAID THAT JOHN BURROUGHS WENT UP AND TRIED TO TOUCH THE SMALL CRAFT?
When only three of them were in the woods, John Burroughs tried to grab the craft. What he did with it, I don’t know. It was a solid object and very small. But what I saw could not be amid those dense trees.
SO, JOHN BURROUGHS, ADRIAN BUSTINZA AND SOMEONE ELSE.
Right. Now, when Col. Halt gets out there, he takes the three initial eyewitnesses and spoke to them. Then they go out into the forest. We retraced their footprints where they went. Col. Halt and a number of people were there investigating this – Lt. Englund and others. They get out to the area and they see something was definitely there. They are getting radiation traces. They had hand-held light-alls, big lights, to light the area. They also had malfunctions constantly with their radios. At this point, there was a dirt track that they thought if they brought in some big generator light-alls, they could light the forest to see if the craft was hiding out there. That’s why they called back and said, ‘We need extra equipment out here. Put the base on extra alert, something is going on.’ They thought it could be Soviet or anything. This is a fact. Now, this is why the only reason that I was chosen to go out there is that you need two people to set up light-alls. I knew how to do it. They picked me up, and Bustinza, in a security police pickup truck, not a jeep. We got up in the pickup truck and took off for the motor pool. Now, we get into the motor pool and set up the light-alls. Captain Verona comes along. Capt. Verona was a nice guy and very down to earth. We tried to fill these things up with gas and they had a meter on them. And we filled it up and this is where – Capt. Verona might have been involved in the first incident. I don’t know because he was acting weird. People were uptight. Capt. Verona came over and looked at the gauge and said, ‘Fill up the goddamn gauge! What’s wrong with you guys? Fill up the light-all!’ We said, ‘We did, sir!’ And he says, ‘No, you didn’t!’ I said, ‘Sir, it is full!’ We did it again and gasoline spilled out! Capt. Verona said, ‘Leave the goddamn thing alone! Just take it.’ I don’t know what was going on. There was a funny feeling in the air – I felt it. We took the light-alls. We drove. There was another truck in the front of us. We drove out of the motor pool to the main gate of RAF Bentwaters, the base itself, the living quarters. When we got there, there was a convoy of vehicles – security police pickup trucks. There were about five in all. Two had light-alls, our truck, the one in front and then a few other pickup trucks had some men in them. Then, there were two law enforcement police cars. We pulled up and got into a line on the side of the road and then took off. As we were driving the six miles to RAF Woodbridge base, it was a very dark night. I had my radio on open channel and I’m hearing definitely from Woodbridge, ‘Tell the Bentwaters’ – it was a call from the law enforcement desk at Bentwaters – ‘Get the CO!’ That was the Commanding Officer, CO, which was General Gordon Williams. Then were some communications about the CO to have him call back on this designated code. Now, we get out there to the site. We’re coming along kind of a winding road and get to the end and you could see the lights for the field at RAF Woodbridge. There were
some flares in the road. There was a civilian car here and a couple down on the other side, but they had kind of a makeshift roadblock. There was a real tall security police guy, a black guy. We stopped the trucks for a minute. We’re going around this police car. There was a woman in the car and a little girl asleep in the backseat. I was like this (in pickup truck) looking down (into car) and the black security police guy was telling the mother there was unexploded ordnance in the area and they were just removing it. That might be where stories of a plane crash came from. I heard that with my own ears. We drove away and when we got down just past the field, the flight line, we took a left into the woods on a dirt track. We drove about a half-mile to a mile and stopped in this kind of circular area where all the vehicles were parked. We got out. At that point, I saw an armory vehicle - they take care of all the weapons. We were told to turn in weapons. We did so. We were told to turn on our radios. We were put in groups of four to five.
I HAVE OTHER INFORMATION THAT YOU FORMED INTO FIVE GROUPS OF SIX MEN EACH: LARRY WARREN, ADRIAN BUSTINZA, LT. ENGLUND, MASTER SGT. SWIFT, SGT. LAW AND SOMEBODY ELSE?
It was Smith, not Swift.
SO THAT IS WHO WAS MOVING WITH YOU?
Yes, but there were a number of different groups going into the woods. There were a lot of people involved in this.
AT LEAST 30 OF YOU IF THERE WERE FIVE GROUPS OF SIX MEN EACH.
There was just about half a shift of security police and that’s made up of almost 150 people (half would be 75 people). There were a lot of people who were not security police out there! I don’t know who they all were. We get into these makeshift groups of people – I was basically with the same people I drove out with. There was a dirt track, a little path, that we followed into the woods. We get down there about 100 yards and we take a right and we start walking. It was dense forest then. Now, off to my left, I see in the distance maybe 50 yards away through the trees a lot of activity going on. Red tape or orange kind of tape around trees. Light-alls and flares on the ground. We get a call, ‘Stay away from hot spots.’ What does that mean? Radiation. This area where they were marking off and people were walking around are the landing sites that Col. Halt described on the tape and the activity. But they were far away from us at this point.
WHAT TROUBLES ME IS WHY WOULD I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO LISTEN FOR LARRY WARREN’S STORY TO CHANGE?
I can assure you that I never intentionally – well, I did change the story and I did lie intentionally twice. One time was to protect myself and one time was hoping that I would be joined by more people and they could tell their underground experience. I thought I paved the way because I thought if I said it secondhand - if there is something to it, I don’t know. I could have been given misinformation about this and I thought there is no way anyone is going to know.
Larry Warren Says He Did Not Black Out, But Is Uncertain of Dates and Times SO, YOUR SAYING YOU SAW THE SHADOW AND THEN BLACKED OUT WAS YOUR FIRST LIE?
It was to protect me. I lied about the fact that I blacked out. But I was just not saying what happened. Larry Fawcett thought I was lying about that and this was with the
BBC in October 1983. Fawcett in Clear Intent printed that and they knew well in advance that wasn’t the way it was (that Larry did not black out). I didn’t know if I wanted to take the ball and talk about aliens. I really didn’t. Talking about spaceships was hard enough. People think you’re nuts.
SO, YOU WERE MOVING DOWN THE ROAD ...
We had just turned and were walking into the woods. Out this way to my left was activity that lit up the trees. There were men, Air Force people. They had the light- alls. We could not get the light-alls dragged out there to where the other people were. They just gave up. The light-alls were never used, as far as I know. People have said our shadows were cast on the object from light-alls in the field. That is completely untrue. That was someone’s perception. We never could get light-alls out there. That whole field was lighted by the object (landed craft). There was not one bit of other light except little bitty flashlights. That thing (craft) was bright! There were farmers in the area and they saw it because a guy came out – I could see his house. So, there were civilians that did see what happened.
DID ANY LIGHT-ALLS WORK?
The ones we dragged out there, the big generator ones, they never lit up. But they did light up one in the back of our truck to light our staging area where we went to organize. We turned in weapons – that took a little bit of time. The time frame – I’m really not sure about. About midnight. But the Halt thing was happening after 2 AM. I think Halt was happening concurrently with our incident. You have to remember something if you listen on the tape. Halt was investigating something quite far off from where I described what happened (with foggy “aspirin.”) You hear him walking to a clearing. The clearing he went to was a good half-mile from the clearing where this “aspirin” landing happened with Williams. Halt was not involved (at Williams site). I never knew he was there (that night where Warren was). Col. Halt also told Lee Spiegel at NBC, ‘He (Larry Warren) was involved in the incidents, but he was not with me.’ And that is true. Col. Halt was apparently out there the exact same time taking men. Lt. Bruce Englund, by the way, left us – he walked away from our group. We did not have Lt. Englund as we were going out to the site. He was not with us. I believe he joined Col. Halt and their investigations out in that area (far from us). There might have been a number of landings out there that I don’t even know about. But when I heard Col. Halt’s tape, the whole thing fit together. They had things going on out that way. Now, I describe when we get to the clearing, the first thing that struck me is that I saw a very bright light you can’t describe coming into the woods through the trees. And as we were walking towards this – I was next to Adrian – I started to say something and someone told me to shut up. At this point, Adrian says to me, ‘This is just like what happened in Alaska.’ I say Alaska and that might be wrong (in memory). Adrian started getting nervous. I said, ‘What?’ The whole time I felt like we were playing war games, which we did occasionally. We got out to the trees very close and I could see a guy sitting next to a tree. I believe this might have been John Burroughs. I don’t know. He was leaning against the tree, not broken down quivering like with a nervous breakdown. He was just sitting there next to the tree. Sgt. Bobbie Ball was over with him and they are all talking. Sgt. Ball was trying to console the guy, ‘It’s alright.’ It seemed like some people knew what was going on.
BUT YOU DON’T KNOW WHO THE GUY WAS WHO WAS UPSET?
No, I’m not sure because at this point, my mind was looking more at this thing (foggy aspirin). I see people walking around – a lot of people out there! I saw a video camera that cost probably around $40,000, like a news camera. And I saw a 35 mm handheld camera that someone was using. Some people were taking photos of this stuff on the ground that is very hard to describe (foggy “aspirin”), but I feel like I could have walked through it. Now, as we walked, there was a little wall of broken stone and a wire fence. We walked over that and are now right in the field with this thing – just a little further out and looking at it. As we stood there looking, I could see in the distance, there were a couple of houses. And there were two cows. Later on with Larry Fawcett, Adrian asked, ‘Does Larry remember the cows?’ And I said, ‘I sure do!’ The cows walked up right next to us and we’re looking at this aspirin thing. I don’t know if I’m missing time or what, but I don’t remember where the cows went. I don’t honestly remember what happened to them. It’s strange. Maybe I don’t remember certain things.
I THINK YOU HAD TIME LOSS.
I think all of us might have.” “Col. Halt told Lee Spiegel at NBC that the implications of what happened are so great that the only way the Colonel will ever speak about it is in a Congressional inquiry – not through a newspaper article. Col. Halt was not talking just about lights in the sky. He’s talking about full-blown contact, which there was. But I don’t think that a lot of people there (military at RAF Bentwaters) believed in UFOs. You hear Col. Halt say on the audiotape he ran, ‘We’ve run into the first ‘night bird’ we’ve seen’ - just after the red light. That’s a USAF term for ground observance of an unidentified flying object. NIGHT BIRD? Night bird. A friend of my father’s here in the Air National Guard of Connecticut says that phrase, ‘night bird,’ is in the manuals he uses. So, back to Rendlesham Forest in December 1980. We’re standing there looking and I hear the sound of a helicopter. Now, the 67th Air Rescue Recovery Squadron on RAF Woodbridge was very loud. They could have been revving a chopper up on the field? Never saw one fly over. And I was never really told what to do. I was just standing there. Disaster Preparedness went up next to this mist (aspirin-shaped) and one guy looked like he was trying to do something with it – I don’t know what? DID HE TOUCH IT? No. He had something that maybe looked like a Geiger counter – I don’t know, but he was near the mist thing.
Red Light “Explodes” Over White, Misty “Aspirin” At this point, there was a bank of trees way off in the distance about a mile or so away and you could see a red star appear. I noticed it right away. Over the radios – the people who had radios had open channels and you could hear some communications. I believe Col. Halt was probably going through the radios, too, on open channels when he was talking. I heard, ‘Here it comes!’ This light looking at it – it was very obvious and everyone was saying, ‘Oh, my God, look at that!’ The red light just seemed to get bigger and bigger. And before I knew it, the thing was doing an arc down the field. It came down and let’s say this (gestures in front of him at coffee table) is the round mist on the ground. The red light stopped above it (gestures above the coffee table, est. 20 feet above mist). I was standing over here (gestures a few feet from coffee
table). And the red light was like the size of a basketball. It looked like a basketball, but not metal. It was a ball of red fluorescence. It was there and then it went BAM! (exploding) and everything fell on the mist (aspirin-shape). WHAT EXPLODED? There was every color you could imagine, strands of light. I never can describe this to people. It was multi-colors of the brightest lights you ever saw in your life, but in a controlled fall on to this misty thing from about 20 feet in the air above. I don’t know how to describe it. But that was all on someone’s film or video.
PIECES OF LIGHT?
Shards of light. I can picture it in my mind, but I can’t describe it.
DID THOSE ‘SHARDS OF LIGHT’ FALL RIGHT ONTO THE ‘ASPIRIN’?
Everything just right on it, staying inside the perimeter of that fog. I know it’s unorthodox and a different kind of description of UFOs, but this is what happened. And then the craft popped in - it didn’t come in ‘conventionally.’ Maybe there was already an invisible craft there (where fog-aspirin was)? Who knows?
AT THAT MOMENT WHEN THE SHARDS OF LIGHT FELL ON THE MIST, IS THAT THE EXACT MOMENT THAT THE CRAFT POPPED INTO YOUR VIEW?
I think so. All I know is the falling pieces of light happened and then there was this machine there. You didn’t have a chance to react. As soon as the craft popped in, I said, ‘Oh, my God!’ But it was not a saucer shape. It was a triangular thing. It looked very heavy. Someone there made the comment, ‘This thing is not aerodynamically capable of flight!’ And it looked to me very heavy and very old. I don’t know why. And the weight of it – I mean, it was big! It had boxes and pipes and things (on the triangular craft). There was a bank of very bright blue down on the bottom and very bright red on the top. But it wasn’t a light – it was aglow. No windows, no doors, no markings whatsoever. If I stood next to it – I’ve tried to draw it to scale in comparison to say a 6-foot-tall man – it would be maybe like this.
WOULD THAT BE 15 FEET HIGH?
About fifteen feet to twenty feet high, but I didn’t measure the damn thing! It was not massive, but it was big and it could not have fit in the forest (amid so many trees growing close together). (Back in 1983) Nippon TV made a model based on my description that looked just like what I saw.
WAS COL. GORDON WILLIAMS STANDING WITH YOU?
He was not even there at that point. I was standing on the side where these things came from. And soon after, Col. Williams arrived with some other brass – people who came in with him – about five or six other people. Eventually, people circled the triangular craft. There was Security Option 3 that is in the event of a nuclear bomb that’s gone amuck – you in security are supposed to surround it! I swear to God!!
TO PUT YOUR HANDS OUT AND SAY, ‘PLEASE DON’T BLOW UP’?!
(laughs) Yes, please don’t blow up! And that’s what we did. I stayed where I was and Sgt. Adrian Bustinza was next to me. Other people were moving around, but Adrian and I just stood there in place. But I remember Col. Williams came with other brass, a guy was walking with a 35mm camera, and there was a big video thing on a tripod - so everything was filmed or videotaped!
I heard that the base news agency got wind of what was going on out there in the forest and went there with their cameras. Maybe that’s how they had cameras there? Everyone seemed so surprised, really.
BUT YOU FELT THAT COL. GORDON WILLIAMS KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON?
Well, I felt that Col. Williams has been trained to deal with a situation like this – not that he had pre-warning, but at least he seemed upset, but kept his composure, you know?
OK, COL. GORDON WILLIAMS, ADRIAN BUSTINZA, YOU, THE VIDEOTAPE PHOTOGRAPHER AND THE 35MM PERSON. ANY OTHERS YOU SPECIFICALLY REMEMBER?
Various others without specifics.
Beings in Spheres of Light
OK, THE BIG, TRIANGULAR CRAFT IS IN FRONT OF YOU. WHAT HAPPENED?
We stood and kept looking at the damn thing. Time frame? I really don’t know anymore. Then all of a sudden, I know some people ran away.
TRIANGLE CRAFT STILL HAS THE BLUE AND RED GLOWS?
Yes, there was the band of bright blue light on the bottom and a red glow on top.
WAS IT WHITE IN BETWEEN?
Light metallic and almost burned (scorched) looking with boxes and things that stuck out.
DID THE LIGHT SHINE ON THE GROUND AROUND?
No. It emitted light, but it didn’t glow, so to speak. I can’t describe it. The thing was just bright! I can’t describe it, but it lighted the area – that’s all I can say – with the glows. But it was bright at the same time. At that point, I tried to look at my watch and a couple of people ran away.
DO YOU MEAN LITERALLY RAN AWAY AS IF AFRAID?
Yes, took off. They came back, I think, but they ran! Master Sergeant Bobby Ball at this point came up and said, ‘Let’s go a little closer.’
WHERE WAS SGT. BALL? There were people all around, security, but he came to me from behind me and said, ‘Let’s go up a little closer. I want to check something out.’ We went up closer to the object and Adrian Bustinza and I walked up a little ways and then we walked back. Now, as we walked closer to the craft, the object had a kind of concave arc up – you could look up the thing – and I noticed our shadows were cast (on it). This is another thing I can’t explain. Our shadows were cast up the side of the craft. We walked and would stop and our shadows took another step. We’d step again and stop and our shadows took another step. And we started to notice this! Then a light of some sort came zigzagging around these boxes (protruding from craft) and stopped near the heads of our shadows. I can’t describe this well either, but there was a little green zigzag that went back up to the top where the red glow was. We stood and we noticed the moving-shadow effect. Now, this is the point where three years ago in 1983 when I first talked that I said I blacked out. But I did not black out. We were told, ‘OK, back up. Let’s get away from this thing!’ We stood back. I said, ‘Well, what are we supposed to do?’ The answer was, ‘Just hang in there, relax, and we’ll see.’
THAT WAS SGT. BALL TALKING TO YOU?
Yes. And Capt. Verano was doing something with people. Anyway, here comes the light out of the side of the craft. It started to get bright around this delta-shaped craft. I never saw a door open, but this little ball of light comes around the side. People start backing up again into the trees almost. I just stood there and could see this thing was a ball of light. It was not three beings walking out of the craft. These things had to be about three feet tall – they were little and inside the light. They were not on the ground. They were above the ground and floated out. But I didn’t see anything except the ball of light at first. COLOR? It was gold, bronze, mist and the three, small beings are inside it. I’m standing there and Adrian says, ‘See them?! Look at it – you can see them!’ I said, ‘What?’ And the first thing I could see – because you had to look really hard at this misty light – you could see eyes, sets of eyes inside the thing. They were definitely eyes – black, big eyes just like in the movies! I don’t remember what I did then. I watched, I was an observer from here on. How I reacted, I don’t know. The light thing seemed to dissipate. People were saying, ‘Oh, my God! I can’t believe this!’ But the beings were still encased in the glow – there was something they were within. The misty ball of light changed into three separate glows. Those moved away from that one glowing unit, or whatever it was. Now they were apart – there were three. I first started to rationalize it as being children, kids. I don’t know why, but I remember thinking they were kids. I had weird thoughts, I guess trying to rationalize what I was seeing. But I also thought it was real, that I was seeing it, that this was happening everywhere in the world (like an invasion). I thought, ‘Oh, my God!’ That’s one of the biggest problems having this happen to you is that all of a sudden you realize the average person doesn’t know what is going on.
COULD THE ENTITIES HAVE BEEN 4-FEET-TALL?
I don’t know. They were about 3 feet tall. And they were four feet off the ground in the light thing. I don’t think they were taller than 3 to 3.5 feet. They were very, very tiny things! But you could see very clearly that they had clothing, they had no helmets. I did not notice hands very much. I didn’t notice feet, although they had what looked like legs. There was a black band around each waist and a long kind of thing, a pole? something they had that was silver-colored.
WERE THE BEINGS ALL SILVER-SUITED? OR WERE ANY OF THEM BLACK-SUITED?
Well, there was a thing – I heard that Bustinza said there were more things out there. Now, he says I saw it, but I don’t know if I did. There was supposedly one entity going over our heads – maybe in black. I don’t remember, or maybe I don’t want to remember. I don’t know.
SOME MILITARY PEOPLE SAY THAT SOME OF THE GREY BEINGS THAT WEAR BLACK LEOTARD SUITS ARE ‘GUARDS’ AND THE SILVER-SUITED ONES ARE USUALLY THE LEADER, THE SCIENTIST, OR?
There was probably something else there. BEN JAMISON: There was one over your head? I don’t know. Other guys said there was something else flying around, but I don’t know. I know I saw aliens – I hate that word.
NO, WE’RE TRYING TO TALK HERE ABOUT THE REALITY OF IT – NOT POLITICAL MISINFORMATION.
Yeah, people! I have been trashed so many times and people don’t realize that I saw this.
Makes me sick, this aspect of trashing. I do dream about what I saw every now and then and it’s unpleasant. And I have horrible nightmares sometimes.
WHAT SORT OF NIGHTMARE? I feel they are coming after me and I don’t like that! WHEN YOU FEEL THEY ARE COMING AFTER YOU, WHAT IS IN YOUR MIND WHEN YOU SAY THAT?
I had one (nightmare) recently. My wife says I wake up all crazy. The dreams are too real. Too real! WHAT HAPPENS? I just have a feeling that they are out there and flying around. The dreams are so real. In this last dream – and I have never dreamed of UFOs before December 1980. I never dream of the (Bentwaters) incident, but in this recent nightmare, I dreamed that this thing – they were outside the window and I could look up and see something big and dark going over in the sky at night. I say, ‘Oh, my God! Oh, my God!’ And I ran outside. I was in another house that I used to live in. Then I went into the bathroom. This is going to sound stupid, but I thought one of them (grey alien) was in the shower. ‘What am I going to do?’ And I could hear them talking to me and I don’t like that.
WHAT DID YOU HEAR?
I don’t remember, but I know it’s talk. I don’t remember, but I hate this.
Larry Warren Hypnosis Sessions LET’S GO BACK TO THE POINT IN THE FRED MAX HYPNOSIS SESSION WITH YOU (ARRANGED BY LARRY FAWCETT) THAT PARALLELS WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT IN THE FOREST?
That Fred Max hypnosis – I went to Fred’s – and I’ve told Ben this and Larry Fawcett can vouch – I was not that comfortable with it. Some things I think I said – I probably didn’t tell him the whole picture – but I don’t know if I was out (deeply hypnotized). Fred insisted I was, but I said, ‘I don’t think I’m out.’ At one time, I think I had the best hypnosis that startled me. WITH WHOM? Patricia Sable, who is a psychotherapist, and we did this hypnosis session for the Japanese TV that filmed it. I said I didn’t want to do it, but the Japanese said it was part of the agreement to go to Japan, which I wanted to do. I saw the film for the first time in Japan. I don’t remember any of it and I said, ‘Oh, my God! That works!’ I was skeptical about hypnosis. But here was me sounding like a 19-year-old kid in some dialect I used to speak (that has changed after) and then schooling has taken away. I was amazed and actually embarrassed it was being shown. Pat is really good.
SO NIPPON HAS THE HYPNOSIS SESSION?
I have the video. I have a couple of the shows I did in Japan.
WHAT HAPPENED IN THE FRED MAX HYPNOSIS WHEN YOU DESCRIBED DOGS BARKING?
I said there were dogs out in the field. But I thought maybe they were dogs next to Fred’s house. Fred Max said you can hear and be aware of other things when you’re under.
OK, LET’S PICK UP WITH COL. GORDON WILLIAMS AND PEOPLE WITH HIM IN YOUR HYPNOSIS SESSION WITH FRED MAX. I AM QUOTING FROM THE TRANSCRIPT:
‘Col. Williams is there. Who is Col. Williams? The commander. Is there anyone with him? Men are with him. You are all right near this
craft? Yes. Nobody is talking yet? Everyone is in groups. Do you hear helicopters when they fly? Yes. Do you hear dogs barking in the distance? Yes.’
THEN THERE IS SOMETHING THAT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND AND YOU ARE SAYING, ‘... under it.’ FRED MAX ASKS,
‘What do you mean? People under what? The ship. How do you know that? I see them. How many? There are four. Do they look like people? No. What do they look like? Kids, small. How tall? They are in the air. Who is in the air? They are. Independent of their craft? Yes. How are they doing that? I don’t know. Are you scared? A little. Funny, there are three in front of Col. Williams and four in front of us.’
LARRY WARREN: That means there were seven alien beings there? No, no! Then I was lying for some reason. That’s not true.
UNLESS IT WAS AN IMAGE THAT YOU HAD AND NOW YOU ARE REPRESSING WHAT HAPPENED?
That’s not true. If I said that, then I lied for some reason (in Fred Max hypnosis).
LET’S PICK UP WHERE YOU HAVE THREE BEINGS IN THE LIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU – IN THE AIR, THE LITTLE ONES?
Yes. There might have been a fourth. I don’t know. But there were three. And that’s what I can say.
ARE YOU ASSOCIATING THEM WITH NIGHTMARES?
No, I never see those in nightmares. I just feel something (presence).
IS IT POSSIBLE THERE HAS BEEN AN EFFORT TO MANIPULATE YOUR MIND SO YOU WON’T REMEMBER?
I know what they look like. Their face has all black eyes – very much like the slanted, almond shape of cat eyes. I don’t know if they had a nose. I don’t remember if they had a mouth at all, but maybe a slight mouth. No ears or pointed ears that I could see or anything like that. No hair. No helmets. No (visible) life support. Very muscular in the chest. Couldn’t notice hands, really, OK? I don’t recall. And the legs just seemed to go down. I don’t remember feet. No markings – just clothing.
LIKE A LEOTARD?
Yes, it sounds stupid, but that’s what it was like.
AND A BLACK BELT?
A black thing around the waist, dividing, like a belt, I guess.
AND THERE WAS A ROD?
It was like a rod or stick – what it was, I don’t know.
SO THOSE THREE (OR FOUR?) ENTITIES ARE HOVERING IN THE AIR ABOVE YOU?
No! They were three feet off the ground away from me quite a distance. They came out (of misty light) and separated. That’s when we knew what we were looking at.
THE EYES – DID YOU HAVE THE SENSE OF LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT WAS AN ARTIRICIAL COVER AS OPPOSED TO BIOLOGICAL? No. That was a real eye. WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
Because I just know it was a real eye – I don’t know why, but that was their eye.
SOLID BLACK?
At one point, it looked like they blinked even. That’s when we could see them very clearly. They got clearer to see as time went on. But they were still in something. I don’t think you could have gone up and grabbed them.
Col. Gordon Williams Arrived
Col. Gordon Williams was not there when the beings first came out. But Col. Williams suddenly arrived and they (Williams and other military) were all talking and these things (non-humans) just stood there – no emotion, nothing. They did not move, but you could see in their faces that you would feel as so insignificant! Their intelligence, you could feel that. You could feel intelligence! And I felt like there was nothing to be afraid of them at all
THAT THERE WAS NOTHING TO BE AFRAID OF?
Right. Not that a telepathic voice said that in my head, but I did not feel too much fear. After Col. Williams came, there was some kind of a meeting. He was talking to people. He looked very shaken. It wasn’t like, ‘Oh, here’s another UFO.’ He had something in his hand – I don’t know what it was – and Col. Williams walked at a safe distance very cautiously. These alien things moved away from the ship and went a bit further, got to Col. Williams and kind of tilted their heads a little bit. That was the first movement. And the aliens just kind of looked, you know? There was no hand sign language – I’ve heard that bunk about hand sign language. That’s garbage!
UNDER HYPNOSIS WITH FRED MAX, HE ASKED: ‘Are you talking to each other?
YOU ANSWERED, ‘Laughing, nervous. Who are you talking to? Steve LaPlume.’
WARREN: I don’t think it was LaPlume.
BEN JAMISON: Is it possible that under hypnosis you were trying to mask the identity of one of the people?
WARREN: I think I had a lot of control when I was doing that (Fred Max) hypnosis. I was trying to protect. That was early on.
COULD THE STEVE YOU MENTIONED IN THE FRED MAX HYPNOSIS BE THE NEW YORK GUY YOU DON’T WANT TO NAME? WARREN: There was a guy named Steve there – his name was Longero – and again, that’s who I’m talking about. But I was not under in that Fred Max hypnosis. I have the tape.
CONTINUING WITH THE FRED MAX HYPNOSIS:
‘Things moved really fast. What’s the craft doing? Just sitting there. Then these guys (aliens) come out. There might have been a doorway on the other side. I don’t know. They were just there. There is a light, a green light.’ WARREN: That was early on.
HOWE CONTINUING WITH FRED MAX HYPNOSIS TRANSCRIPT:
‘What’s being said to Col. Williams? I’m too far away. Who is trying to address Col. Williams? These things (non-humans). Was the Col. looking at them? Yes. How so? He was looking down at them. The beings are looking down on him? No, Col. Williams is looking down on the aliens. They are small. Have they landed on the ground? They are at that level. There is one right near us. Is he conversing with them? Yes. Does Col. Williams look comfortable? Very. Has Col. Williams seen the aliens before? I don’t know. He just doesn’t seem worried.’ WARREN: At the beginning, Col. Williams looked worried, but he seemed to get comfortable with the situation, or at least calm with it anyway.
IN THE HYPNOSIS SESSION, YOU DESCRIBED THE BEINGS AS LOOKING ‘LIKE A TOY WITH LARGE, BLACK EYES.’ AND YOU SAID THE NEAREST BEING WAS IN A BLACK, TIGHT GARMENT.
I don’t know about that. Who gave you that transcript? I have the tape.
I TYPED THIS TRANSCRIPT FROM A TAPE OF THE FRED MAX HYPNOSIS.
You have a tape, too?
YES, I TYPED THIS FROM THE HYPNOSIS SESSION. With Fred Max? YES. I TYPED THIS MYSELF.
Then I don’t remember or know why I said some of the things like that. I don’t know.
YOU SAID IN THAT HYPNOSIS,
‘The beings were three feet above us. How far from you? Three feet above us. Three feet above you? How are the beings different? Can’t tell – it’s a black suit. The other one is silver. Is the being near you dressed differently than the others? Yes. Anything on the shoulders? No – only a black stick like a night stick (police). With this group of people you are seeing, are you seeing a hierarchy? Is one of the beings clearly the leader, like Col. Williams is? Probably the one in the middle. Why do you say that? The rest seem to be watching the one (in the middle) and Col. Williams talks to him.’
NOW, IN TERMS OF THE TALKING, THE HYPNOSIS SESSION SAYS, ‘
There is movement of the hands. What kind? Like Italians. All three of them? Col. Williams. Col. Williams is talking like Italian? Right. What about the three beings - are they talking like Italians? They seem very slow, like puppets. What would differentiate them from puppets? There are no strings attached. Could they be robots? No. Why? Just the way they look – their faces.’
IN THE HYPNOSIS, YOU TALK ABOUT,
‘There is a whitish light all around the aliens. Are all the people calm and comfortable? There are some people running, I think, towards us from the woods. How far is Col. Williams from you? Two yards.’”
“YOU’RE SEEING THREE ENTITIES (IN SPHERE A LITTLE ABOVE GROUND OUTSIDE TRIANGLE-SHAPED CRAFT). AND YOU CAN SEE THEN-COLONEL GORDON WILLIAMS TO YOUR RIGHT. WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER?
He walked toward these things (in air). Col. Williams did look down because they were below his head level. They were not touching the ground though at this point. They stared. That basically was the gist. They stared. Then at one point, there was a very loud noise. That might be where hand movements come in. There was a very loud noise in the woods almost like a tree fall, like the crash of a tree. It might not have been, but it’s what it sounded like. The three things in the sphere backed away like – Swoosh! Back real quick to the underside of the vehicle, very close to the object. Their hands and arms were up almost defensively. Then they mellowed out and went back in the direction of Col. Williams and they continued with Williams looking down at them. He looked very calm. In them, you couldn’t see any emotion in the face. At that point, we were told to leave. I see people starting to leave in the woods and I see people next to me start to go and then I’m told to go back to the trucks. As I’m leaving, the things are still in position (in the air) with Col. Williams with his people around. Off we went and get back to the trucks, go back to the base. The sun had not come up yet. I don’t know what time it was. We at there quite awhile and drank coffee. No one said a word. Finally about 6 AM, the morning shift came on. They were all coming in and a lot of us were just sitting around doing nothing and somehow people knew what happened, or some extent of it. We were getting ribbed about Little Green Men. Then I took off, went back to my room, but couldn’t go to sleep. I got a phone call to be at the Chief of Security Police Office at about noon. I went to have breakfast. There were a lot of guys that had been involved in the incident that were at the Police Table. We sat down together and I wanted to say something, but other people were looking at me like, ‘Don’t say a word!’ But the base was buzzing about it. We went and had the briefing in Major Zickler’s office. Left that and got back.
THAT MEETING WAS NOT UNDERGROUND THEN?
Underground – what that came from, I’ll get to that point. I get over to a friend of mine named Greg Battram, who was on CNN. We spoke. He was involved in this to a degree, but was not with me. We talked about what happened. He was blown away and this guy was an ex-Marine fighter pilot. We get to a public telephone and I said, ‘I want to call my mother.’ I picked up the phone and reversed the charges. My mother still has the bill from that day. That would tell us the date! Ben Jamison: Your mother says she doesn’t have it. Larry Warren: She doesn’t have it any more? Well, I got on the phone with her. I said, ‘Mom, you’re never going to believe what happened here last night. A UFO did this and that and I’m yakking about it. All of a sudden she wasn’t there! I’m talking and all of a sudden there was nothing on the line. I said, ‘My God!’ I hung up and called the operator and said, ‘I got disconnected. I had a reverse charge call to the United States.’ The operator asked me, ‘Are you calling from the base?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ She said, ‘You were cut off from the base.’ And I know all the base phones are tapped always. So, I got back to my room. Some kid comes running up and said, ‘We got a call from the Communications Squadron on Bentwaters.’ That’s a place that was half underground and half not. It was a nerve center for radar and everything. I get there and walk in where all the security is.
THIS IS AFTER THE BRIEFING BEFORE?
Oh, yeah, this is that afternoon probably about 5 PM. I get in there, meet this captain guy and he takes me into a room and started saying, ‘You’ve given away information over the phone. That’s a breach of such and such regulation. I’m going to have to fine you or take your stripes.’ There was a $300 fine or my two stripes and I said, ‘Let’s go with the fine. Deduct it from my paycheck.’ At first I denied it. I said I never did that (phone). But this guy played a tape back! He had a reel-to-reel tape right there and here I am yakking on the phone! You could even hear the click when my mother heard, which I never heard on the phone I was on. So, they had me pegged right away. I said, ‘OK,’ and I signed up for the money deducted. I forget what they took. But I left the U. S. Air Force owing them $95.00 of that fine. They sent me a thing saying they would take me to a collection agency in 1981 if I didn’t pay it and I said, ‘Screw you! What are you going to do? Tell people I told about a UFO landing on the base and you didn’t get my money!’ They never took me to a collection agency, but I still have the letter from the government and all this from the Air Force. After that, we had already been debriefed, I worked on flight another month. That’s when I started doing a lot of administration stuff. No one talked at all. (about the incident). I heard a lot of stories about someone taking photographs and they took his film. There were a lot of rumors, but I stayed away from it. But I was in an office asking questions. This is where it got interesting. I had a guy in my office. He came in to replace a guy that was going stateside. This new guy was named Mark Reese. He was a staff sergeant. The funny thing about this Mark Reese is that he had a Z-280, a real nice car. The average staff sergeant couldn’t afford it. He had just come from Arizona and was assigned to this office (where I was). The guy was bright. I mean sharp as a whip! And he always seemed to be watching me. And I had been asking questions around the base.
Sgt. Adrian Bustinza and RAF Bentwaters Underground Then in March 1981, Adrian Bustinza came to my room and slipped a note under my door and said, ‘Meet me at my room.’ I get over there and he threw his roommate out and we sat down and started talking about this. He told me of a UFO that happened to him and his family at one time back in the 1970s. Then he started to talk about what we saw in Rendlesham Forest. He was telling me things that I did not recall – that something tall was out there, something was seen that was very tall. It was bizarre. Then he said, ‘There’s something you don’t know. There’s an underground facility under this base, under Bentwaters, and he went into this whole big deal about how he was – the next day – he was picked up in a car and passed out and all that. That was the day I called my mother. Sgt. Adrian Bustinza and several other people were taken out to the Bentwaters base photo lab and went down an elevator to an underground facility. He barely recalls, but he came out at the same place. They were shown high tech underground somewhere. He heard jets, so he knew it was near the flight line. He sat in a room and something talked to him from behind a screen. He told me, ‘Look, you’re getting out. Tell this and when I get out, we’ll go to the newspapers.’ That’s at least what we thought then. I said, ‘Well, I’ll do it as my first hand, but you’ve got to back me up as soon as it comes out and tell what happened in detail.’ He said, ‘Fine.’ He seemed really into it and interested in getting the story out. He said they were messing with him. Some bad things happened to Adrian. So, Adrian told me this whole underground thing. And I really bought it. I don’t know why, but with the circumstances of what happened and what was going on in the meantime, being monitored, being watched, it made you feel sick! I had no reason to disbelieve that this guy was honest. He was definitely an honest guy. He went into details and said there was an object own there (underground). He saw it from a catwalk. So, I believed him 100%.
Military Retaliation Against Larry Warren? Later I was back in the office and one day they told me to take a shovel and a wheelbarrow and start digging dirt near this building. I said, ‘Wait a minute! You’ve gone too far now – you’re pushing me! You’ve taken me off duty, you’ve done this and that.’ Then a friend of mine, Steve La Plume said, ‘Larry, listen, I went to Holland for a weekend in Amsterdam. I came back and as soon as you go there, you’re under suspicion of carrying drugs, no matter who you are because it’s very drug-oriented in Holland. Steve said, ‘OSI is putting a file together on you.’ I said, ‘Screw this! I know what they are doing.’ I called the guy from OSI and asked to talk to him. He said, ‘OK, come on in.’ I get out to the OSI office, which was near Major Zickler’s office. I go in the back and there’s this black guy who was with OSI. I said, ‘Listen, I want to talk to you people. I hear you are doing something with some information about me and I would like to talk with you about it.’ He said, ‘OK, come on in.’ The guy read me my rights! And then said, ‘Sit down.’ I sit down and this guy opens a file cabinet and pulled out a file and started to reading to me. He said, ‘September 15, 1980, you were in so and so’s room smoking hash and on September 20th, you sold hash or marijuana to someone. On October something on Bentwaters you did this and that.’ He had like three incidents.
I said, ‘Oh, but if you had ever checked with me a little further you would find that during September and October 1980, I was still in the Security Police Academy in San Antonio, Texas, and I wasn’t even on this base. I wasn’t even assigned to this base then!’ The guy shut the file and said, ‘Get the hell out of here!’ And put the file away. That’s when I called my mother and said, ‘I want out of here! I’m sick of this! They are playing games here and trying to get me arrested for drugs. I know they can plant them in my room.’ Then some rumors started going around that I was an informant for OSI! People who had been my friends were staying away. I don’t know what happened to me in that goddamn field in Rendlesham, but I saw something and remember it in 40 ways. But afterwards, those bastards almost ruined me. Then I went to the base lawyer, a colonel, and said, ‘I want to get the hell out of the Air Force. They are doing this and this to me because I was involved with the UFO and I’m sick of it.’ And he says, ‘Well, let’s check some things out. Are you working in the field?’ I said, ‘I’m working in the police, but I’m not doing what I was trained to do under contract.’ He said, ‘Well, that constitutes a breech of contract and we can look into that.’ I get back to my office and that Reese guy is there. He sits down and I said, ‘Mark, you weren’t here on base at the time, but did you ever hear about the UFO incident?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ I said, ‘Do you know there is an underground base beneath Bentwaters?’ He said, ‘Why push it? What can you do about it?’ He was so calm and collected! I said, ‘Wait a minute! So, you know about this?’ He shrugged his shoulders and walked away. He was the staff sergeant in security police assigned to my office and this Mark Reese was too sharp to be a staff sergeant. And I had not done anything wrong, even though someone tried to get me on phony charges. They offered me airfield maintenance, which is picking up paper from the runway and shooting rabbits. I could see myself being a cook for the next five years. The choices they gave me no one would want, so I wanted out! The lawyer said, ‘You’ve got a breech of contract and we’ll submit it to Col. Williams.’ And I have his letter that says, ‘I have reviewed Mr. Warren’s case and feel it is in the best interests of himself and the United States Air Force that he be honorably discharged as of May 15, 1981.’ I have that at home with his signature.
WITH GORDON WILLIAMS’S SIGNATURE.
That’s right. So, I got out – and that was stupid also! My mother kept saying, ‘Don’t get out! There are no jobs back here. What are you going to do?’ It was a small town in upstate New York. I told her, ‘I don’t care. I’m sick of this!’ But it probably was stupid to do that, get out. If I had been quiet and let it all blow over like most people did, but I was pushing this from the day it happened, I was talking. After I got out, I told my mother the whole thing with a neighbor next door there, too. My mother said, ‘I didn’t know whether to believe you or not, but ...” After awhile, I decided to go back into the Air Force and they assigned me to washing dishes. Oh, my God! It was terrible!’ When I went to the same recruiter I used before, he recognized me. I explained I wanted to go back in and he said, ‘No problem. You’ve got a good record. But you’ve got a funny re-enlistment code. I never saw anything like that before.’ But we tried processing and I went down to Albany and went through the whole thing again, passed physicals. They told me, ‘We’ve got to put you back in security police.’ I was so desperate to get out of my hometown I said, ‘OK, I’ll do it again as long as I go somewhere else (not Bentwaters).’ They said, ‘Fine, all was good.’
But a couple of days later the recruiter called and said, ‘Larry, I’ve got bad news. They denied you re-enlistment the other day.’ I said, ‘Wait a minute, I got an honorable discharge. I have re-enlistment option open to me.’ All of a sudden, I run into a lot of problems with the process that just stops. Even on the recruiter computer, it would come up with my name, rank, address, social security number and the words, ‘Do not process.’ Then I got in touch with Congressman Soloman for help, but that didn’t work either. So I went to the U. S. Army and that recruiter said there was something wrong with your records. I finally said I saw a UFO with a lot of people and thought that was the problem. But after a month of trying with the Army, they were getting ‘Do not process’ also. And no one could explain to me why. I went to McGuire AFB for a review of my discharge papers that say ‘Honorable Discharge.’ And then there was my DD-214, which is your service record with any awards or medals or ribbons you got. I had five of them in one year of service! I worked security when the hostages came back from Iran and Germany. But on my DD-214 there was a code that meant ‘No re-entry.’ [ Editor's Note: Larry Warren’s politically-connected father tried to get his son back into the Air Force without success. Later they learned that Larry’s USAF records in 1983 had been classified and sent first to the Pentagon and then on to the National Security Agency in 1983. ] I called the NSA and they told me they had no record of my Air Force military service!” “I went to live with my father in Connecticut and told him I wanted to get back in the service. He said, ‘No problem. What about the National Guard?’ So, we went up to Bradley Airport. His friend is a general, the commander of the Connecticut National Guard. They play golf together because both were in the insurance business, too. We get up to the general’s office. I don’t tell him about UFOs or what happened (in Bentwaters). I just said I encountered a lot of red tape (trying to re-enlist). The general said, ‘Oh, no problem. We can override this.’ My father said, ‘Good, good!’ And we go back to the car. Months go by and my father talked to the general and he said, ‘Well, I’m working on it. It’s not going very smoothly.’ Finally, my father saw the general at a lunch and the guy ignored my father! My father is a professional in the elite of Connecticut (business people), and the general is now ignoring him. My father came back to me and said, ‘Larry, I don’t know what is going on. He wouldn’t talk to me, tell me or anything. He just said, ‘I’m sorry.’ So I said, ‘Dad, I’ve got to tell you what happened to me.’ And I sat down and that’s when I told my father. I didn’t know how he would respond to it. But he said, ‘Larry, with all I’ve seen going on with you with the red tape and all, I believe you.’
WHAT’S CURIOUS IS THAT THE U. S. AIR FORCE WOULD HAVE SO MUCH MORE CONTROL OVER YOU IN THE AIR FORCE THAN OUT OF IT.
But they would then have a person who could give information out at any time to people in the military and it would be like a disease that would spread. Yet, I know security at military bases and I know certain things about RAF Bentwaters that I don’t say to this day because it’s about national security – some very big things about Bentwaters, but it doesn’t concern UFOs. [ Editor’s Note: Presence of nuclear weapons at RAF Bentwaters WSA.] The presence of things at Bentwaters might concern the UFOs – why it’s there. I think then the USAF felt better that I was out. A lot of people kept begging me not to go back in. They said, ‘You go in, they can do whatever they want with you. Stay out!’
Now, I’ve spoken to people in government and at the Pentagon. Everyone of them is aware of who I am. We had my military records drawn up from this place in St. Louis, Missouri, where they keep all the military records – even from my father’s days in the service. They got them. My records are classified! They were in the Pentagon and then moved to the National Security Agency (NSA) in 1983. That’s where they are. I was supposed to have a big board hearing – this is all documented and things that people don’t know and why I laugh when people say I’m full of shit. We organized the meeting at the Pentagon and I was supposed to have a hearing with the whole board of the Surgeon General and everybody because of my situation. There were Congressmen – I had three of them, Toby Moffett, Lowell Weicker and the Gov. of Connecticut O’Neill sent a letter and finally I got some action. I had a hearing. This Pentagon board meeting was called with senators invited as well. They could not get my military records because this is when I found out they had been moved from St. Louis to the Pentagon for review and now they were permanently at the NSA. I got a letter stating that. And I didn’t even know what the NSA was then, but I found out it was the National Security Agency (in Ft. Meade, Maryland). I called the NSA. They said, ‘Mr. Warren, we have no record of your military service.’ I called back to St. Louis and there was a time when the U. S. Air Force was denying I had ever served! I called the FBI and have people outside of the UFO community that have worked with me on this including senators that know exactly what is going on and know what has happened to me because they have seen proof and evidence of it. They said, ‘There is so much security on you, you’re so highly classified with your records and all, they will do anything to keep you out (of re-enlisting in the USAF). They said, ‘But they can ruin your professional life, too.’ Now, I worked for a television network here in Connecticut during an internship when I was in school finishing up. I’ve done commercials. I’ve copy written for United Airlines. I’ve been somewhat successful. Channel 10 here in Connecticut, I’ve done commercials, and I’ve taught at the Connecticut School of Broadcasting courses in copywriting twice a month. Doing alright for 25-years-old. And I keep the RAF Bentwaters incident away from my professional life. Some people saw the CNN special (reported by Chuck De Caro) and I was told to stop doing this (participating in interviews). BY WHOM? By my boss at the TV station. He said he didn’t want controversy. Word came down from the NBC network not to do any story on Bentwaters. And I don’t know if I remember the incident exactly – or the way I want to remember at times. I’d have to sit down with a psychologist who believes in UFOs to sort it out. I probably need one in certain aspects. I’ve grown up with this essentially! I called down to Randolph AFB, Texas, and I talked to a captain. I was pursuing my records. He said I was involved in something that happened at RAF Bentwaters in 1980. ‘I know what you are talking about.’ He said that to me just like that. He goes, ‘It would not surprise me if you have some problems.’ I told him I had been having problems for two years. He said, ‘I’ll have someone call you back.’ And I got a call back from a Tech Sergeant Green and he sounded black. He said, ‘Mr. Warren, I’ve been speaking to captain so-and-so and I’m to relay this to you that there is the possibility you might be able to re-enlist in the military if you stop talking about what you are talking about. I have no idea what this means; maybe you do?’ I said, ‘Yes, I sure do!’ And he said, ‘Thank you very much. If you have any more problems, please contact us, but that’s a word of advice I was told to tell you.’
JUMPING BACK TO SECURITY AT BENTWATERS WHEN THEY HAD YOU SIGN ALL THE PAPERS, DID THEY EXPLAIN TO YOU THAT YOU WERE SIGNING SECURITY OATHS IN WHICH YOU WOULD BE FOUND GUILTY IF YOU VIOLATED THEM?
They said you could go to jail even if you are a civilian and you talk. They said you could be fined and that ‘bullets are cheap!’ So, I don’t know if they would shoot, you know? But the thing is I don’t know – this is a goddamn weird subject! I get emotional about this because it happened to me. Something happened to me! I remember it the best way I can. I’m angry about it!
WHY WEREN’T YOU INTIMIDATED BY SECURITY AND GOVERNMENT WHILE EVERYONE ELSE IS?
Because it’s truth and if I was not telling the truth, then I would not have gone through the problems that I went through. They would not be able to screw around with me if I was just a bullshitter out here, or a clown. I don’t think you would be here talking to me because I would have been found out a long time ago if there was not meat to what I was saying.
Underground Base At RAF Bentwaters: UFO Film and Non-Human Being? Larry Warren agreed to tell Sgt. Adrian Bustinza's experience to protect Bustinza.
ABOUT THE UNDERGROUND BASE AT RAF BENTWATERS ...
That was Bustinza, but I was trying to tell it (his firsthand) from me secondhand. The plan was that Adrian would tell his story when he came public, but you know what Bustinza said: ‘Oh, I don’t want to go into that.’ He said that to Larry Fawcett – ‘I don’t want to talk about it.’
HERE’S THE STORY I HAVE I WANT TO GO OVER WITH YOU: TWO MEN IN BLACK LOOKING LIKE CADAVERS CAME IN TWO BLACK LIMOUSINES. THEY CAME FOR ADRIAN BUSTINZA AFTER HE WOKE UP FROM A BLACKOUT AT THE CRAFT SCENE IN RENDLESHAM FOREST. DID BUSTINZA REMEMBER BLANKING OUT?
No. Bustinza never blacked out.
SO, THIS IS A COMBINATION OF THE TWO OF YOU?
A combination – I combined it. I think the motive here is very honorable. It’s just the way that people who don’t know the whole ramifications, the whole story – and that’s other people’s fault, not mine.
THAT BUSTINZA WAS IN THE UNDERGROUND BASE UNDER BENTWATERS FOR THREE DAYS AND THERE WERE SIX MEN MISSING FROM BENTWATERS DURING THOSE THREE DAYS AND THAT WAS CONFIRMED BY ANOTHER PERSON.
There were people who said I was missing, too, and still insist on it. They said, ‘You were gone, man!’ And I said, ‘I was not gone!’ People said I was in the United States on leave. But I remember that I called my mother (from Bentwaters).
YOU COULD HAVE HAD A TRUE MISSING TIME EXPERIENCE.
It’s a weird time. I can’t really get a fix on it. I can remember other times in the service real well, but I can’t remember that. Ben Jamison: You were puzzled about your sequence of duties. You were supposed to rotate from flight to flight to flight and then you would get off.
LW: Well, you would work six days on and three days off. And on New Year’s Eve 1980, I was off duty and got stone drunk on champagne. I had three bottles hidden around the base and drank one of them. But I was on duty during the incident. Ben Jamison: The day after Christmas you went to London?
LW: No, on New Year’s, we went to London on New Year’s Day (January 1, 1981) and stayed down there. On December 6, 1980, was the last time I was in London, I think, before January 1, 1981. Ben Jamison: The day after Christmas you said you wrote to your mother, but never sent the letter. LW: I wrote on December 26 or 27. I had it dated. I wrote to my mother and said it was boring over there and obviously nothing had happened yet. I have that letter somewhere. I’ll have to dig it up. I could be wrong about the date; maybe it was December 27. Ben Jamison: Weren’t you on duty that night you wrote the letter? LW: I went on duty late at night. I remember writing the letter.
Howe: LET’S CONTINUE WITH THIS STORY THAT BUSTINZA WAS DRIVEN IN SILENCE AS IF IN A DREAM. HE BLACKS OUT AGAIN AND WAKES UP INSIDE AN UNDERGROUND, HUGE COMPLEX. LW: Yeah. HE SEES A UFO LIKE THE ONE IN THE FOREST DOWN BELOW HIM. HE IS STANDING ON SOME SORT OF A CATWALK. LW: Right. HE SEES WHOLE BANKS OF COMPUTERS. HE IS TAKEN TO AN AUDITORIUM WITH ABOUT 30 TO 40 OTHER PEOPLE THAT HE KNOWS FROM BENTWATERS. THERE ARE ALSO HIGH-RANKING OFFICERS PRESENT. THERE IS A (MOVIE) SCREEN. A GENERAL COMES OUT AND SPEAKS. LARRY, DO YOU KNOW WHO THE GENERAL WAS?
No. I just tried to repeat it as close to how Bustinza told me. It might be different in some aspects.
THE GENERAL REFERS TO ANY QUESTIONS THE PEOPLE IN THE AUDITORIUM MIGHT HAVE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN RENDLESHAM FOREST AND WHY IT WAS NECESSARY FOR SECRECY. A FILM WAS SHOWN. YOU SAY, LARRY, THAT IT WAS SILENT – NO SOUND, RIGHT?
Larry Warren Says He Saw UFO Film in AFOSI Office, RF Bentwaters LW: The film I saw, I watched in Major Malcolm Zickler’s office (head of AFOSI at RAF Bentwaters). I think I was tying the film in because Bustinza said he saw the UFO film underground.
SO YOU DID SEE A FILM, TOO? Oh, yeah. OK, YOU CAN TELL ME IF THE FILM I’M NOW DESCRIBING AS BUSTINZA’S STORY MATCHES WHAT YOU SAW.
WWII Fighter Squadron Filmed As Fleet of Silver UFOs Passes By
ONE SCENE WAS WWII BOMBERS FLYING WITH A UFO SILVER DISC FLYING ALONG OUTSIDE THE WINDOW.
LW: No. That was in there. I know what you are trying to say, but what it was – it was a squadron of fighters – not bombers – flying along in formation and it was like it was filmed from another plane behind that. And you could see a fleet, or bunch of silver things flying past it. Ben Jamison: The Navy had single-engine bombers, so that’s not inconsistent. LW: It was over the ocean. And that was a quick one and black and white.
SQUADRON OF FIGHTERS FLYING IN FORMATION WITH A FLEET OF UFOS FLYING IN FORMATION IN THE FOREGROUND OR BACKGROUND?
Well, here were the bombers out this way, the planes, and here was obviously a camera on another plane, I guess, and these (UFO) things went past and went out (of frame). There were clouds and everything – that was one part.
FLYBY – AS IF IT WERE SET UP FOR THE OTHER PLANE TO FILM?
No, it looked like the (camera) plane was just photographing bombers flying and these (UFO) things went by real fast. None of the films looked staged or expected.
Green, Large Craft Rose Up from Vietnam Woods Another film showed Special Forces at a fire base in Vietnam definitely and a couple of guys were smoking cigarettes. They had shirts off and one guy had a beret – so they were Green Beret, a Special Forces group. They turned around towards woods – not really jungle – a thicket of trees – and this big thing rose out. It was dark, drab color. You could see trees, or pieces of branches, falling off down into the jungle and the thing went up and the guys were looking at it.
WAS THAT IN COLOR?
Yep.
LIKE A DARK GREY COLOR (THE MACHINE)?
Dark green kind of color, during the daytime.
WHAT WOULD BE THE YEAR FOR THE SQUADRON OF FIGHTERS (B&W FILM)?
1940s, WWII era. No dates were given, but you can guess somewhat.
IN MY NOTES, I HAVE THAT THE CRAFT THAT ROSE FROM THE JUNGLE IN VIETNAM WAS LIKE THE BENTWATERS CRAFT?
No. It had the same idea with delta shape, but it was like – it’s hard to describe. It was on the same principal, but much larger. Very big! Smooth and just a green thing rising up.
SO NO BOXES AND PIPES LIKE WHAT YOU SAW AT BENTWATERS?
No, it was smooth. It had like delta-type things.
YOU MEAN?
Looked kind of like this – maybe I can draw it. This thing just rose straight up in broad daylight. It was very clear, very good film, and just went out of sight very slowly. As real as real can be! And the military men are all looking like surprised.
WHY WOULD ANYONE HAVE BEEN FILMING THAT SCENE IN VIETNAM?
I’ve seen tons of Vietnam film. So, someone had a camera because a lot of it looked like the film was focused on the guys and then the camera just panned. It was out of focus and then it caught this thing rising. People had 8 mm or 16 mm film.
Korean War Dogfight Between Chinese MIG and Ball of Light
ANOTHER FILM CLIP WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE KOREAN WAR AND A MIG IS SHOT DOWN BY A UFO?
[In UFO film shown underground at Bentwaters] it was the Korean War and what happens is that a MIG – there is a dogfight definitely going on. Some kind of bright ball of light passes the MIG and the MIG comes down in smoke and everything. And the camera on the aircraft was following it - it seemed lower than the MIG - there were mountains and definitely Korea – the plane filming flew down towards the wreckage of the MIG and the film just stops right there. It’s very quick. A lot of this is quick.
THE BRIGHT BALL OF LIGHT WAS WHICH COLOR?
I don’t know. It was B & W film.
WHEN THE LIGHT PASSES THE BIG, THE MIG EXPLODES.
Yes, it almost looked like a rocket was shot at the MIG. That’s what you would think if you saw it on TV – that a missile was shot out and kept going. The basic theme of the film they showed was UFOs and so this had to be a UFO that hit the MIG.
COULD YOU TELL WHAT YEAR IT WAS?
No, except it was the Korean War era. [The war began on 25 June 1950 and an armisticewas signed on 27 July 1953.] It was a Chinese MIG.
Three Silver Discs Filmed On Moon During Apollo 11 Buzz Aldrin, 2005: “There was something out there that was close enough to be observed and what could it be? Mike (Collins) decided he thought he could see it in the telescope and he was able to do that and when it was in one position, that had a series of ellipses, but when you made it real sharp it was sort of L-shaped. That didn't tell us very much.”
[Editor's Note: Wikipedia - NASA's Apollo 11 mission landed the first humans to walk on the Moon on July 20, 1969, crewed by Commander Neil Alden Armstrong, Lunar Module Pilot Edwin Eugene ‘Buzz’Aldrin, Jr. and Command Module Pilot Michael Collins, who orbited in the Command Module. In September 2005, the Science Channel broadcast a documentary entitled, First On the Moon: The Untold Story.
About 14 minutes and 30 seconds into the program, former NASA astronaut Buzz Aldin described a UFO encounter while Apollo 11 was traveling to the moon. UFO Evidence transcribed segment.
“Narrator: But three days and 200,000 miles into the flight, Mission Control did miss the significance of a cryptic message from Apollo 11.
Apollo 11: Do you have any idea where the S-IVB is with respect to us? Mission Control: Stand-by
Narrator: The Crew required information on the current position of the S-IVB, the final stage of the rocket which had been jettisoned away two days earlier. This short message hid an extraordinary turn of events: Apollo 11 wasn't alone in space.
Buzz Aldrin: There was something out there that was close enough to be observed and what could it be? Narrator: Traveling along side of Apollo 11 was a mysterious object like this one (a ringed object at close range is shown), filmed on a later mission. If it wasn't part of their own rocket, it could only be one thing: a UFO.
Aldrin: Mike (Collins) decided he thought he could see it in the telescope and he was able to do that and when it was in one position, that had a series of ellipses, but when you made it real sharp it was sort of L shaped. That didn't tell us very much. Dr. David Baker (Apollo 11 Senior Scientist): NASA knew very little about the object reported by the Apollo 11 crew. It was obviously an unidentified flying object (UFO), but such objects were not uncommon and the history of even earth orbit space flights going back over the previous years indicated that several crews saw objects.
Narrator: Despite having a clear view of the UFO, the crew was wary of reporting it to Mission Control.
Aldrin: Now, obviously, the three of us were not going to blurt out, ‘Hey Houston we got something moving along side of us and we don't know what it is, you know, can you tell us what it is?’ We weren't about to do that, cause we know that those transmissions would be heard by all sorts of people and who knows what somebody would have demanded that we turn back because of Aliens or whatever the reason is, so we didn't do that, but we did decide we'd just cautiously ask Houston where, how far away was the S-IVB?
Narrator: Unaware of the drama unfolding in space, Mission Control radioed the position back to Apollo 11.
Mission Control: Apollo 11, Houston. The S-IVB is about 6,000 nautical miles from you now, over.
Aldrin: And a few moments later, why they came back and said something like it was 6,000 miles away because of the maneuver, so we really didn't think we were looking at something that far away, so we decided that after a while of watching it, it was time to go to sleep and not to talk about it anymore until we came back and (went through) debriefing.
Narrator: To this day, whatever it was that the crew saw has never been positively identified or officially acknowledged.
Dr. David Baker: There were a lot of people within the program who went off later and became convinced that UFOs existed and that lead to some concern on NASA's part where they got the agreement of the crew never to publicly talk about these things for fear of ridicule.” ]
Howe: THEN FILM ON THE MOON. A LAND ROVER TRAVELING ON THE DUSTY MOON AND THREE UFOS RISE UP OVER HILLY AREA BEYOND.
LW: They were ON the hill.
THEY WERE NOT RISING?
No, they were on the hill. You see the camera comes up and these three things are on it – not a hill, but like a cliff almost and they are there.
THEY WERE SILVER AND SMOOTH?
Just bright, like light was reflecting off of them. They were not lit up.
SILVER DISCS.
Yes, just sitting there.
ON A CLIFF AND AS THE LUNAR BUGGY MOVED, THE THREE DISCS COME INTO SIGHT ON THE CAMERA.
Yeah. The camera, whatever this camera was, was on that lunar vehicle and was around 1973, in that era.”
“THAT’S FOUR FILM SCENES YOU JUST DESCRIBED WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE?
The film showed buildings, or like a big, rectangular shoe box, on the moon. That’s all it showed from that same era of the space car on the moon. It showed like the same color of the moon’s surface, but had a ‘shoe box-like’ structure to it. Very quick.
LIKE ADOBE?
No, like a shoe box. There were no windows in it or anything. Square, like a clump of - it looked like the same ground, but a square box on it. And some kind of very symmetrical carvings in the landscape. It really did! That was it, very quick, but it was like a shoe box. No windows. I don’t know what it was, but it was big and built.
[ Editor's Note: Wikipedia - “Clementine (officially called the Deep Space Program Science Experiment (DSPSE) was a joint space project between the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization (BMDO, previously the Strategic Defense Initiative Organization (SDIO) and NASA. Launched on January 25, 1994, the objective of the mission was to test sensors and spacecraft components under extended exposure to the space environment and to make scientific observations of the Moon and the near- Earth asteroid 1620 Geographos. Observations made included imaging at various wavelengths in the visible as well as in ultraviolet and infrared, laser ranging altimetry, gravimetry, and charged particle measurements. These observations were for the purposes of obtaining multi-spectral imaging of the entire lunar surface, assessing the surface mineralogy of the Moon, obtaining altimetry from 60N to 60S latitude, and obtaining gravity data for the near side. There were also plans to image and determine the size, shape, rotational characteristics, surface properties, and cratering statistics of Geographos, but by June 1994, it was announced that the Clementine ‘signal was too weak to receive’ and the mission unexpectedly ended” - at least in public.]
ANY OTHER FILM SCENES?
A lot of gun camera film – jets following something.
Ben Jamison: Was there anything having to do with the space program, but not on the moon?
Larry Warren: Oh, yeah! It showed the astronauts, the sky walks, the Sky Lab, a lot of film, lights coming by it and objects below it. It showed a space walk maybe from that same era with a guy outside of the ship and you could see something go right – like something in the darkness - go right over and the guy was trying to check it out or something. It was all there. Just different clips, very quick and very brief.
[ Editor's Note: Wikipedia - “ During Sky Lab launch on May 14, 1973, some 63 seconds into flight, the micrometeor shield on the Orbital Workshop (OWS) experienced a failure that caused it to be caught up in the supersonic air flow during ascent. This ripped the shield from the OWS and damaged the tie downs that secured one of the solar array systems. Complete loss of one of the solar arrays happened at 593 seconds when the exhaust plume from the S-II's separation rockets impacted the partially deployed solar array system. Without the micrometeoroid shield that was to protect against solar heating as well, temperatures inside the OWS rose to 126 degrees fahrenheit. The gold “parasol” clearly visible in the photo, was designed to replace the missing micrometeoroid shield, protecting the workshop against solar heating. The replacement solar shield was deployed by the Skylab I crew. This enabled the Skylab Orbital Workshop to fulfill all its mission objects serving as home to additional crews before being deorbited in 1978 in a deliberate crash of Sky Lab back to Earth.”]
WERE THE CRAFT ALWAYS THE SAME?
No, everything looked different. Sometimes you could not see a craft, just saw a streak of something, a light.
HOW LONG WAS THIS FILM OF THE CLIPS?
Now that’s – under an hour, 45 minutes maybe? Half-hour to 45 minutes to an hour, in that area.
YOU SAW THE SAME 45-MINUTE CLIP THAT BUSTINZA SAW?
Yep! He told me parts of it that we discussed.
IT WAS SILENT?
Right, no narration, no titles, no nothing.
THE TALL BLOND AND THE BLACK HAIRED GUY – HOW DID THEY SET UP WHAT THE FILM YOU WERE GOING TO SEE?
There was a movie projector in the office. They locked all the doors. The windows, the shades were all down. They had a screen set up, a makeshift little screen. They showed it. They had it in an ironclad – you know those protected things with locks you would not believe. DIA and all these codes on the thing and a lock, a coded system, that you punch in. That was the case this thing (movie film) was in! I never saw them take it or leave it. They left the room and the film was still there. It was like business as usual to them.
YES, BUT HAD YOU SIGNED ALL THE RELEASES BY THEN?
That was just after the end (signing non-disclosure releases) they said, ‘Bullets are cheap.’ And, ‘we’re going to show you a little film.’ This was the only time they hinted. ‘We want – you might understand what has happened here a little better.’ Now, I understood it NO better. I was saying, ‘Oh, here are movies of UFOs. Now, what are they doing?’ We saw them (film) and people have said maybe they were faked and maybe it was disinformation for you. But the films I saw – I know special effects to a degree – and there is no way. They were just real films. You know, the average person, you just sit there and watch them because they are on film.
BUT THEY DID NOT TRY TO EXPLAIN TO YOU ANYTHING?
No.
JUST TOLD YOU THEY WERE GOING TO SHOW YOU SOMETHING THAT WILL SHOW WHY...
No, they didn’t say they would show. They said, ‘You’re going to see a film that might help you understand what’s happened here.’ That’s it. No hints. I was pretty silent, but then they started joking about ‘bullets are cheap,’ and I thought that was kind of morbid, you know? Everyone was laughing because they were very keyed up.
AND THAT WAS THE ROOM ...
It was in a simple office on the ground level. They locked the door. And they had jail cells out the hallway there.
IN THAT SCREENING, JOHN BURROUGHS WAS NOT THERE; ADRIAN BUSTINZA WAS THERE FOR PART OF THE TIME, BUT ...
For part of the interview. He was not there for the screening. They took him out.
HE TOLD YOU ABOUT SEEING THE FILM IN THE UNDERGROUND BASE.
He told me in March or April 1981 about his experience. I’m staying away from Bustinza’s experience now because again, I have enough trouble with mine and I’m not going to carry the ball for Adrian. I did for a long time, but he did not do what he said he would do (disclose his true experience).
BUSTINZA IS PROBABLY SCARED.
Well, I called his house and his mother got on the phone and she knew who I was. I never could reach him. He works in the Border Patrol, I think, in Texas. His mother thought I was Larry Fawcett because he had talked a few times and Larry’s kind of persistent. I said, ‘Mrs. Bustinza, I served with Adrian. I was in the service with him. Please ask him if I can talk to him.’ She said, ‘This has caused nothing but problems for my family and I wish Adrian would stay out of this.’
Chuck De Caro, when he interviewed Adrian (for CNN), Chuck asked him outright, ‘Is Larry Warren lying?’ Chuck let Adrian see everything that I’ve been involved with. And Adrian said, ‘No.’ Chuck said Adrian was simply scared. What happened to Adrian after December 1980, I don’t know. Everyone – my friend Greg Battram – I contacted him. You (Ben Jamison) have spoken to Greg, right? Ben Jamison: Yes. Larry Warren: I guess he told you he couldn’t continue. Ben Jamison: I called him the first time and he was a good story telling guy and the second time I called him, it was only five minutes. Now, the thing that people forget is that every single person involved in this, there have been other witnesses. I have heard them on CNN. I have heard people like Ray Boeche (Nebraska investigator) has talked to Adrian and Adrian is not telling the truth and I can tell. I knew Adrian well enough that I knew he didn’t trust Ray. Adrian did not trust who he was speaking to and he was giving disinformation. I have heard disinformation given on the Bentwaters case by the government anyway. I have heard it given by witnesses on CNN like – for one, I always said there was motion picture. Adrian said long before CNN that the film was flown to Germany the very next day. Capt. Mike Verrano comes up on CNN and says, “I did drive Williams (Gordon Williams - Base Commander), to an F-16 on the Bentwaters tarmac the AM of the 30th. He had two canisters of 35mm footage with him...He told me directly that it was actual footage of the UFOs on the ground...” Verrano said he had pictures of the UFO – meaning motion pictures. Where is it going? He said there were 35mm (photos), but that did not come out – so they say. Verrano said all the photographs came out foggy, but they did not because I saw the pictures. I’ve seen pictures (photos) from this (December 1980 Bentwaters)! I won’t go into that, but they did not come out foggy whatsoever. There are pictures and there is motion picture. I’ve never seen the films, but they do exist.
WHY NOT GO INTO THE PHOTOGRAPHS?
Because I have seen some of the stuff they gathered that night. I have seen the sample bottles, I’ve seen one of the pod indentations (in forest soil), the plaster cast, a lot of the stuff is kept.
COL. HALT SAID THEY HAD DONE PLASTER CASTS.
He said they threw it all away. It’s at Wright-Patterson in Foreign Technology right now. Col. Halt has given out so much disinformation.
LET ME CONTINUE ON THIS LIST OF WHO WAS AT THE FILM SCREENING. GEORGE LAWS?
No, George was not there. These were all lower ranking people, sergeant and below.
CAPT. MIKE VERRANO?
No.
STEVE LA PLUME?
No, Steve wasn’t there.
COL. GORDON WILLIAMS?
No. Gordon Williams was not there.
LT. BRUCE ENGLUND?
No, no officers at all, except that Major Malcolm Zickler came in and out sometimes. It was his office.
A GUY NAMED CARPENTER?
Carpenter, good ol’ Carpenter. Yes.
WHAT WAS HIS FIRST NAME?
This is the blond-haired kid we were talking about. I don’t remember his first name.
SOMEBODY NAMED GULIUS? [ Ray Gulyas.] [ Editor’s Note: Former RAF Bentwaters Deputy Base Commander Charles Halt told me in August 2009, “I definitely was not out in the forest with Capt. Mike Verrano [ during the daylight hours of December 26, 1980]. I only knew he was out the next day because several others told me. ...Ray Gulyas (E-4 or E-5, Buck Sgt. or Staff Sgt.) ... somewhere I've seen pictures he took of the ‘landing site’ the morning after [of] the first event.” See: September 15 - 17, 2009 Earthfiles.]
He was the administrative monitor, I think. He did all the testing. He was around that day, but I don’t think he was in the room. He was in the building that day. He’d come in and out. He took care of all the paperwork. He was a Master Sergeant.
MASTER SERGEANT FRED SMITH? No. MAJOR ZICKLER, IT WAS HIS OFFICE FOR THE BRIEFING?
Ben Jamison: But the film was not shown in the office where you had the briefing, was it? Didn’t you get up and go down the hall? Larry Warren: ‘When we first came in, all the papers – you go in the building and there’s a desk. The papers we signed were not in - we went down in a line and just signed papers. They were all in a block with our names and we just signed down. They had Xs marked on the ones we were not to sign and different flags of the reports. Then we walked into Zickler’s office. That’s where the film was and that’s where they did most of the talking behind closed doors. But the paper, we were very quiet. There were people there operating the controls.
OK, ZICKLER WAS IN AND OUT AND IT WAS HIS OFFICE FOR THE BRIEFING.
But he left for the film. He was not in there.
GREG BATTRAM?
Greg – I don’t believe Greg was there.
THOMPSON?
Yes, he was there.
HIS RANK WAS?
Airman or Senior Airman? I don’t remember what his rank was, but I think Senior Airman.
OF THE PEOPLE WHO CAME UP IN THAT NIGHT (THAT LARRY WARREN WAS INVOLVED), THERE WERE ONLY...
There are a lot of people I honestly don’t remember their names.
BUT OUT OF THAT NIGHT, IT APPEARS THAT ONLY THOMPSON, CARPENTER, YOU, AND THE NEW YORK GUY ARE THE ONLY ONES FROM YOUR NIGHT IN THE BRIEFING.
There were two Thompsons. There was a Dean Thompson, too. There were a couple of other people, but I don’t know their names. I had only been at Bentwaters for a month at that time (December 1980). A lot of these guys I had gone through training with down at Lackland in Texas, so I knew them.
HOW MANY WERE IN THAT BRIEFING ROOM (Major Malcolm Zickler’s office) AT ONE TIME? About ten. IT WAS NOT UNTIL MARCH 1981 THAT BUSTINZA CALLED YOU TO HIS ROOM AND WANTED TO UNLOAD ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED UNDERGROUND WITH HIM?
He wanted to rehash the case and the harassment he had been going through on base. He told me a lot things, a lot I don’t remember, but it was in March 1981, late March on a night.
IS THAT WHEN HE MENTIONED, ‘DID YOU SEE THE MAN WITH THE CAPE?’
Yeah. Now, this is something – I don’t know what context he was putting this in. There was something about something in the woods, something real tall, and he could hardly get words to describe it.
HE DID NOT TRY TO DESCRIBE TO YOU?
I don’t remember. I just remember something about it was bizarre. Some of the things he was saying, he seemed real upset, so I had no reason to question him.
Ben Jamison: Was he upset when you didn’t remember the man in the cape?
Larry Warren: No, it was like, ‘You’re kidding! No, I don’t remember anything like that.’ Maybe Adrian was saying it was something he saw. I don’t know. There was something he talked about that was very tall. I have an image in my head [ from listening to Bustinza] of a very tall thing like a person that was in a cape. That’s all Adrian mentioned. I don’t know how it fit in. I don’t remember. It was five years ago [ late March 1981] when Adrian and I had that conversation. I don’t remember the conversation, it was so long ago. But he said something about someone out there on a path in a long cape, very tall. I don’t remember how he put it, but it happened that night. I remember that was one of the scary parts when we were talking. Whether he said, ‘Did you see it?’ or ‘I saw it,’ or ‘It was there the whole time’? I don’t remember.
PART OF THE STORY I HAVE BEEN TOLD IS THERE WAS A NEED FOR SOME ELECTRONIC PART BY THE NON-HUMANS AND THERE WAS SOME KIND OF A LANDING. YOU HAVE SAID BEFORE THAT YOU HEARD CLEARLY COL. GORDON WILLIAMS, ‘WE’LL GET IT FROM ELECTRONICS.’
That is a little bit of Bustinza again (not me). See, I was trying to incorporate everything I heard and after it was sorted out, we’d find out if it were real or not. I would be the fall guy. I didn’t care because I knew it was real. Bustinza said to me – I mean, we don’t have a UFO supply on base and what would we have that they can use? And that’s what Bustinza said about parts or something flown from Germany.”
Bustinza said to me – I mean, we don’t have a UFO supply on base and what would we have that they can use? And that’s what Bustinza said about parts or something flown from Germany.” :
“LARRY, WHY DO YOU THINK I WAS TOLD THAT YOU WERE LEGITIMATE, BUT THAT YOUR STORY WOULD CHANGE BECAUSE YOU WERE TOLD TO MUDDY THE WATERS OR YOU WOULD BE HURT? THE IMPLICATION ALWAYS IS THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE HURT IN THEIR CAREERS OR THROUGH THE IRS OR SOME WAY.
I never was told that, to muddy the waters, ever. My biggest problem with the story changing is that I had all this information from everyone, including Bustinza. Obviously, I did not experience everything that happened on that base, but I took it all with me. And I was the first to come out. I made the mistake of not just dealing with what happened to me, in which you would have found nothing that deviated. But under all these different situations that caused a lot of problems, I tried to handle it, the whole thing.
FROM ADRIAN BUSTINZA.
Bustinza and other things I heard and I tried to put them all out to be sorted out. I said, ‘Some day if it’s wrong, it’s going to come out. People are either going to trust me enough, or it’s going to destroy my credibility.’ Now, for the most part, it has not (destroyed my credibility.)
DID YOU EVER GET A DESCRIPTION FROM JOHN BURROUGHS ABOUT WHAT HE TRIED TO GRAB ON TO?
Oh, no, I never knew that except from Lee Spiegel (NBC) when he talked to Col. Halt. about grabbing on to something in the forest. What Col. Halt said about me was all I was concerned with because I figured Col. Halt was giving out disinformation. He has to! He has no choice – like Barry Greenwood (Citizens Against UFO Secrecy) said, ‘Col. Halt seems to want to say something.’ Col. Halt said to Lee Spiegel, ‘There is so much more to this than I can say.’ Something happened to Col. Halt out there that he can’t talk about.
ONE GOVERNMENT SOURCE SAID IT WAS JOHN BURROUGHS WHO TRIED TO RUN UP TO THE CRAFT, OR ON IT, WHEN SOMETHING RED APPEARED.
I don’t endorse aliens, but I know in my heart I saw what I saw. I don’t know where it’s from. I don’t know why it’s here. And I always believed (in other life), always did.
Larry Warren’s Nightmares After RAF Bentwaters Phenomena In my dreams, something is talking. It’s alien – the alien feeling when you see these things. You can’t describe it because everything in the atmosphere around you does something. It gets charged, or so still. RAF Bentwaters – nothing will ever top that ever again!
CAN YOU CONCENTRATE ON THE FEELING YOU’VE EXPERIENCED IN YOUR NIGHTMARES. THINK ABOUT THE PART THAT IS SO UNPLEASANT YOU DON’T WANT TO THINK ABOUT, BUT TRY.
It’s like never in my life have I dreamed about UFOs ever. But about a year ago for the first time (1985) – you know how the story came out about how I came to talk about Bentwaters?
The Betty Andreasson Luca Connection I had oral surgery when I was fighting with the military at the time. I had 18 stitches in my mouth. I picked up the Hartford newspaper one day right after the surgery. Here I am reading the Hartford Current and here is this article – a woman standing next to a paper mache construction model of an alien entity she supposedly met. She is from the town next over from where I lived. I got a feeling. It said her husband worked at a Toyata company and was a manager there. I called up the place and asked to speak to Bob Luca. He came on the line and I told him I had just read the article in the Hartford Current and said, ‘I’m not a nut. Can we set up a time and place?’ He said, ‘Fine, I’ll call you later.’ Like a compulsion to hook up! I met them. Betty I believe truly had an experience. She brings a lot of religion into it. You’ll never find a finer, more decent person and very concerned for me, too. I get over to their house and tell them about RAF Bentwaters and sure enough, they know Larry Fawcett (Citizens Against UFO Secrecy). So Betty and Bob set up a meeting with Larry Fawcett and his wife, Lois. They came down a couple of weeks later. We went out to dinner and Larry was checking me out.
They had heard something about the Bentwaters case. I told them guardedly, just pieces. As time went by and I talked to him more, I gave him times and approximate dates – enough information to file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. And finally he gets a document and it just snowballed. Two weeks after I met Larry Fawcett, I’m sitting at home. My father’s wife is there and I asked, ‘Do you need anything at the store?’ She said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘I have to go to the store.’ I get up and go down to a convenience store, go in and there is Omni magazine. I never read Omni magazine, science fiction, and had no interest in it. But I pick up Omni and am flipping through it and see an item, ‘UFO Update.’ It said, ‘On a night on or about December 30, 1980, at RAF Bentwaters...’ And I go, ‘Oh, my God! It’s out! Someone is talking about it.’ So, I bought the magazine. I'd just gone public myself.
CNN Documentary Mentions E.T.s Sgt. Bob Ball talked about aliens. CNN’s Chuck De Caro told me, ‘Everyone that I talked to off the record verified everything. But when they got on the record, they would not talk about aliens at all, except Sgt. Ball. Listen to the CNN tape. Sgt. Ball says, ‘We saw life forms or a life form of some sort and vehicles that are not from this planet.’ It’s on the CNN tape. People blow past that.
GOING BACK TO THAT TIME PERIOD BETWEEN 1980 AND 1983, BUSTINZA WAS IN HIS ROOM AND HE TELLS YOU ABOUT THE UNDERGROUND. DID YOU SIT DOWN AND HAVE A ONE-ON-ONE WITH ANYBODY ELSE?
Adrian and I were one time going to try to get John Burroughs with us to talk, but we never did.
WAS IT COL. HALT WHO SAID THAT JOHN BURROUGHS HAD BEEN CAMPING IN THE FOREST FOR TWO WEEKS?
Halt, I’ve been there when Larry Fawcett talked to him on the phone when Halt was in England. And Halt hated me. I don’t know why, but Halt was furious, angry about people using his name and he said he was going to sue. Larry Fawcett said, ‘Colonel Halt, Art Wallace [ Larry Warren ] didn’t even know you were involved in this until the January 13, 1980, Halt memo came out.’
WHAT WAS COL. HALT’S RESPONSE TO WHAT WAS PUBLICIZED OVER HIS NAME? DID HE SAY, ‘YES, I DID THE MEMO VOLUNTARILY’? OR DID HE SAY HE WAS TOLD TO WRITE IT THE WAY THE MEMO IS WRITTEN?
He never commented. The fact that he waited until January 13, 1981, to write the memo to the MoD, like, ‘Oh, yeah, that thing that happened a couple of weeks ago.’ It was known that this was so big and so many people were involved in one aspect or another, there had to be at least one like me who would talk. There were others who did their share of talking, too. But that memo came out on purpose. If they really didn’t want the memo to be released, it would never have come out.
THE HALT MEMO AND THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE LETTER.
But Halt’s memo is inconsistent. When Chuck De Caro showed it to a lot of people, their response was that there were a lot of inconsistencies that didn’t match up with what they knew. That was the general consensus.
YOU ALSO HEARD ABOUT ELECTRONIC ENGLISH BEING HEARD IN THE CONTROL TOWER?
Yes, electronically synthesized version of English that was consistent with the MoD document that I only saw for the first time in Japan. I said, ‘The MoD has got it right
and they’ve got the date right, I believe.’ And I brought that document to this country! I was the first one to bring the MoD document here.
WHERE DID YOU GET THE DOCUMENT?
I’ve seen other flags of this MoD memo, too. It goes into different logistics and the whos and the whats.
WHO RELEASED IT?
All I know is how I got it. A TV producer in Japan showed it to me on a TV show I was doing there live. He said, ‘Read it.’ I read it and said, ‘It’s somewhat true. We were not SAC (Strategic Air Command), we were TAC (Tactical Air Command) – so that’s an inconsistency on there. Whoever leaked the MoD document knew something! The Japanese TV producer paid for it. Harry Harris had the tape [ of lights in Rendlesham? ] that was supposedly given to Harris by a Colonel who said, ‘Oh, I don’t believe in UFOs.’ Harry Harris sold the tape to Japanese TV, plus the MoD document. The Japanese TV producer asked me to not show the document to anybody, but I’ll be damned if I’m just going to keep evidence like that under my belt. I come back to the U. S. and I talk to a guy on the East Coast who says, ‘Let’s contact the National Enquirer! We can split the money. I’ll get $3,000 and you can have $2,000. I get $3,000 because I discovered you.’ I told my father and he said, ‘Larry, don’t be a fool. Don’t do that!’ I said, ‘Dad, I could use that cash.’ He said, ‘No way, don’t be an idiot.’ But sure enough, a guy from the National Enquirer calls me up. I told him, ‘I don’t know if it’s true or false. I’ve just got a document. He said, ‘Well, I don’t think there is too much to it.’ Money is tempting, but not that tempting. Here’s something - the British police were out in the field that night (of light phenomena) and they had cameras. They saw everything. These two English bobbies (policemen) are standing there and they took pictures. Then the USAF took their cameras away. Adrian Bustinza told Ray Boeche, ‘I was told to take their (U. K. police) camera.’” :
“IN THE BRIEFING WITH THE FILM CLIPS AND SIGNING THE NON- DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS, DID THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE NON-HUMANS IN RENDLESHAM FOREST?
No, never once! Never said the word ‘alien.’ Never used the word ‘UFO’ or ‘spaceship.’ Never! Nothing! It was all military regulations: who to speak to, what not to discuss. They went around it so smoothly. They never said anything, but we obviously knew what we were there for. Very clever people!
COULD YOU GO BACK OVER DETAILS AGAIN WHEN YOU SAT WITH ADRIAN BUSTINZA AND WHAT HE SAID?
We went over the Rendlesham incidents. He mentioned about something wearing a cape. How he fit that in, I don’t recall. It was about something tall with a cape. Now, whether he saw it or not, I don’t know. He told me about the underground facility with the classic Men In Black.
DETAILS?
He said they wore black suits. They had a big car with New York license plates. Adrian was called to meet the car. As soon as he got near it, I don’t know if he got shot or something, but he lost consciousness. But he said he remembered the interior of the car seemed too bright, like green. The dashboard lights seemed too bright. Someone else was with him in the car. They got in the back of the car and they were driven. Bustinza said he could only hear sound (he couldn’t open his eyes or move).
DID THEY GO INTO A BUILDING ON THE BASE?
They picked Adrian up just outside the door where he lived. Adrian was told to meet a car outside at a certain time.
WHO TOLD HIM?
I don’t know. I don’t remember. Someone called him on the phone and said meet such and such. I don’t know who, but he gets out there, gets in the car. This blew my mind – he said he was taken by two men and as they drove, he could not open his eyes and could not move for some reason when he got into the second car.
BUT HE COULD HEAR? He could hear they were near the flight line. Adrian said he could hear the jets landing. Bustinza said he could feel descent, going down (steps). The next thing he knew, he was eating in a room like a small cafeteria. He remembered things in pieces like being in a room full of high tech equipment with engineers around; being taken to this cavernous ... he told me something very interesting, too. At this time in England, there were all these TV commercials about Exxon and British Petroleum building underground tunnels. One in particular was built in Ireland leading from the sea. Adrian said from the underground catwalk he was on at Bentwaters, it was like in the same tunnel used in those Exxon and BP commercials. I was told it goes 13 miles into the North Sea and this is how these things (alien craft) enter and exit through the water. Adrian said he looked down from the underground catwalk and it was very dark, but there were some humans walking around and there was an object, a spaceship down there. He remembered in parts - I don’t know if he was being cautious with me. He went into another room and it was something like a classroom. Adrian and others were put in comfortable padded chairs. Bustinza said that all of a sudden he could not turn his head from side to side. He couldn’t see the person sitting next to him. Then some kind of screen came up in front of them. There was a light behind the screen that shown out toward him and the others in the room so you couldn’t really see what was behind the screen. They were briefed by a commander or general or someone – I don’t remember who. And then something walked up behind the screen. Adrian said he could see a strange silhouette behind the screen, but not what was making the silhouette, and it talked to him in his mind telepathically about a lot of things, including religion; how the American government and Russia weren’t what they seemed (supposedly Cold War enemies that really weren’t?); that bases (alien? human?) can be made invisible if they have to be or destroyed in a flick if they have to be. Everything on the surface of Earth is a mask for what's below ground! That’s also what another guy told me – it’s all false above ground covering up what is actually going on below. He told me that government is not real. I was saying, ‘Oh, man! with tears about some of the stuff.’
WHAT ELSE DID BUSTINZA SAY?
Religion and about Christ. They (military intel briefers?) knew his birth and life that no one else knew. Adrian was hearing this from a voice in his head!
DID BUSTINZA TELL YOU WHAT WAS COMMUNICATED TO HIM ABOUT CHRIST?
I think he did – something about the Pope in the Vatican.
OK, COULD YOU START FROM THE BEGINNING AGAIN. ADRIAN BUSTINZA COMES TO YOU TO TALK - PICTURE IT IN YOUR MIND.
Adrian is sitting just like you are on a bunk bed (Warren, Howe and Jamison are in a motel room at 1986 Connecticut conference) and I’m sitting in a chair – just like now exactly with you. Adrian told me the entity behind the screen in the underground room said religion is not what it seems. Religion is a control over people, but there is a Greater Force in the universe, much above whoever They (aliens) are. Something about the Pope and religion that I don’t remember. Then the Pope got shot soon after that (on May 13, 1981).
[ Editor’s Note: Wikipedia – “The first attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II took place on Wednesday, May 13, 1981, in St. Peter's Square at Vatican City. The Pope was shot and critically wounded by Mehmet Ali Agca, a trained sniper from Turkey, while he was entering the square. The Pope was struck four times by bullets from a Browning Hi-Power rifle, and suffered serious blood loss. Agca was apprehended immediately and later sentenced to life in prison by an Italian court.
The Fatima Connection: Our “Lady of Fatima” is the name given by three children tending sheep on a Fatima hillside in Portugal to a beautiful woman who appeared to them in glowing light above a tree. The children assumed the lady was the Virgin Mary and she first appeared to them on the May 13, 1917, and on the 13th day of each month thereafter until October 13, 1917. The Lady communicated “secrets of Fatima” about prophecies and the upcoming end of the world, particularly related to possible world war and the conversion of Russia away from Communism. The reported apparitions at Fatima were officially declared “worthy of belief” by the Catholic Church. On June 26, 2000, Pope John Paul II released the “Third Secret of Fatima” in which he said that the May 13, 1981, assassination attempt on his own life by Agca was the fulfillment of the third Fatima Secret. The resonance of the assassination attempt with the May 13th Fatima apparitions was something the Pope always regarded as significant, attributing his survival on May 13, 1981, to the Virgin Mary protecting John Paul. Many critics suspect that the Church did not provide full disclosure of the third Fatima Secret, believing that it actually predicted the Apocalypse. While in prison, Agca was reported to have developed an obsession with the Fatima miracle and during his trial claimed he was the second coming of Jesus Christ and asked the Vatican to release the whole Third Secret. On March 31, 2005, just two days prior to Pope John Paul's death, Agca gave an interview saying “the devil is inside Vatican's wall,” and claimed he had accomplices inside the Vatican who helped in the assassination attempt. Agca also said: “Many calculating politicians are worried about what revealing the complete truth would do. Some of them fear that the Vatican will have a spiritual collapse like the Berlin Wall. Let me ask: why don't the CIA, the Sismi, the Sisde and other intelligence agencies reveal the truth about the Orlandi case?” Emanuela Orlandi, the daughter of a Vatican employee, disappeared at age 15 on June 22, 1983. Anonymous phone calls offered her release in exchange for the release of Agca. Archbishop Paul Marcinkus was alleged to be part of the Orlandi kidnapping, although no charges were brought.]
Larry Warren: “The religion stuff was quite interesting to Adrian, who was raised Catholic, but he said it was described much different than we imagine. He was also told that the military structures were all a game between the U. S. and Russia corporations that make wars (for money). And you can see it with gas prices going up again right now (1986). This is a game being played here!
CAN YOU REMEMBER MORE OF WHAT BUSTINZA SAID ABOUT THE ALIEN COMMUNICATION?
Oh, my God – the most important thing I almost forgot. Adrian told me, ‘They are coming here! – this is Adrian Bustinza talking – They are among us! You might know them and there are people on the base who either work with them or are them.’
I asked, ‘How do the aliens look like human beings?’
He said, ‘They do! And the aliens are in government.’
This really blew my mind – the aliens are in government in levels beyond the President. The President is nothing, only an ornament like all the world leaders are ornaments. There are so many things – when I got upgraded security. Like General Gordon Williams would have a TOP SECRET clearance, I had a SECRET clearance. They said there were 38 levels above TOP SECRET in the government – I was told this directly when I was getting my SECRET clearance.
Bustinza told me, ‘The President means nothing and a lot of our government is Them (aliens). He said they are from something that is dying, having to come here, and they have been doing it since the 1940s, coming here and getting into society some how. Something about the mail system and there are underground bases – Plattsburgh, New York, was named (not far from White Mountains of New Hampshire where Betty and Barney Hill described a non-human abduction in September 19–20, 1961.) Under a lot of military bases, there are underground facilities that are massive, apparently. Off of Florida is one of the biggest underwater/ underground installations. In South America, the aliens have a massive installation off Peru. The Peruvian government is fully aware it’s there and they stay away. They don’t mess with it.
OK, LET’S GO BACK TO BUSTINZA. HE SITS DOWN ON THE BED AND YOU ARE SITTING IN A CHAIR NEAR HIM. HOW DID HE START?
He was crying! He was crying, a grown man crying telling me these things.
HE STARTS OUT CRYING LIKE HE HAD BEEN HOLDING SOMETHING IN?
Yes, it was like so frustrating to him. He said, ‘I want to get out of here. I’m either going to kill someone or they are going to kill me before it’s over.’ Apparently, Bustinza pulled a knife on a black Lieutenant (Bonnie Tamplin?) who was pressuring him about something. He flipped and pulled a knife on her.
BUSTINZA PULLED A KNIFE ON A BLACK LIEUTENANT?
Yes, he told me this.
THE LIEUTENANT WAS PRESSURING BUSTINZA TO KEEP QUIET?
Something. I don’t recall. I’ve told you all I remember about that conversation. There was so much to it. It was emotionally charged and Adrian even had me on the border of tears because after having the experience (in Rendlesham Forest), Adrian is laying on to me that I’m sitting on top of an alien base here on Earth (that RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge would be the surface above an underground, non-human- controlled base). I had no reason to disbelieve that the aliens are here. Adrian told me exactly where the underground facility is (near RAF Bentwaters). I told Larry Fawcett, ‘I have to fess up here – I did not experience the underground facility firsthand. It was Bustinza’s story.’ Larry Fawcett said, ‘OK.’
I UNDERSTAND. PLEASE CONTINUE MORE WITH WHAT ADRIAN BUSTINZA TOLD YOU.
OK, it hit religion, especially about the aliens coming into society somehow and they are doing something – I don’t know if they are taking over, but they have identities taken care of by the governments of the world – and something about Third World countries are almost insignificant.
SO WHAT IS THE GAME BEING PLAYED BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND THE SOVIET UNION THROUGH THE NON-HUMAN ALIENS?
The Soviet Union has had major catastrophes with these (alien) things. Some of them (aliens) dislike the Soviet Union a great deal. Others like the Soviets and some deal with them - are those the maggots of the space races? Adrian said he was told there are hundreds, thousands of other alien races that have come here through the centuries - millions of years - and have always been here, much longer than we humans have. And we are the genetic descent of them or of something the aliens have had to do with. {Sacha edit. Adrian told me warren did not go to Egypt} I went to Egypt and had the experience of seeing the pyramids. The Egyptians believe the pyramids were built by extraterrestrials. But all the science books I read in school said the stones were rolled on sticks. But those stones are huge! I got to Egypt under a strange circumstances as well. I got orders cut for me just after Adrian told me about his underground experience. I got orders cut for Italy. They said, ‘You’re going to go TDY for a month.’ We got on a plane late one night in a group of ten or eleven security police. We stopped in Germany, picked up some more security guys in a C-130, and then flew off to Italy. When we were at Aviano AFB (northeast of Milan), we flew to Athens, Greece. Then we flew from Athens to Turkey where we picked up things. Then we flew from Turkey to Ben Gurion Airport in Israel and then flew into Cairo. We were driven a long way out to this area and had tents pitched. There was a huge radar tower coming out of the middle of nowhere and a huge mountain range so heavily armed and fortified and had nuclear weapons in it – it was amazing! With my SECRET clearance, whatever this place was, I never found out. We had to do communications work there and some security. We worked with some Egyptian security that did perimeter, but none of us ever got to go in. There was a tunnel carved out like Strategic Air Command (SAC) in Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado Springs, Colorado. That tunnel was in Egypt - connected to a big underground. This facility was so massive that I was told it was larger than the state of New York underground! It was so tight under security forces that if any security guy fell asleep on duty there, the security police will be shot by their own superiors. Those people take care only of exterior security. You would never get inside. I saw a few people come out of the facility. In the mountains, you could see like glass in the crevices and every now and then you would see a person walk by where the mountain is very high up. (laughs) It was very high tech and very strange! These tunnels were in the middle of nowhere and there were no visible electric power towers nearby. Adrian said the Exxon and British Petroleum TV commercial campaigns were done to keep the public and media away from seismic disturbances (during construction of massive underground tunnels in the U. K.). I went into this place that was dug out of a mountain like a palace and when you went into it, there were all these pictures on the walls.
WAS IT IN LUXOR, THE VALLEY OF THE KINGS?
Yes, the Valley of the Kings. I’m going along narrow path with rails along side with the paintings on the walls and here is this part and our guide said, ‘There are a lot of spirits in the pyramids. Don’t take photographs, Larry, with your flash because that damages the paintings on the walls.’ Everyone did it anyway! Adrian was with me there. I had a 110 camera. Adrian had a real nice camera.
ADRIAN BUSTINZA WENT WITH YOU TO EGYPT?
Yes, he was with me. I picked up my camera and started snapping pictures. Every time everyone picked up their camera to take pictures, it looked like a hand was put over your lens. Everyone was looking around at each other and looking at their cameras and put the cameras up again to take a picture. Same thing – the hand – all the time in a certain area. Then we got to this place where there was a dog with pointed ears, black. And the tour guide says, ‘That means death.’ I took a picture real quick with the flash. I didn’t know if it would come out. I had the photograph checked by a photography expert and he couldn’t explain it. You see it getting dark just until the dog’s head is there and it is dark all around it. That was the only picture that did that effect.
WHEN DID YOU AND BUSTINZA GO TO EGYPT?
In March 1981, the third month after all the stuff happened in Rendlesham Forest.
WAS IT IN EGYPT THAT BUSTINZA BROKE DOWN TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE UNDERGROUND INSTALLATION AT BENTWATERS?
No, we had just gotten back at the end of March or early April 1981. In Egypt, we never talked about anything, we just had a good time. But our Egyptian guide told us in the little pyramid museum there, ‘You might have heard in school that the pyramids were built by rolling stones on logs. The actual fact is that the pyramids were mined (stones cut out) 300 miles from here. At that time, there were three big rivers each the width of the Hudson River that the builders would have to have crossed coming back from that stone quarry to get to where the pyramids are now standing. The stones were cut with laser precision and there are no chisel marks. There weren’t enough trees to roll the big blocks of stone and if they built sand up like they say, the guide said the makers would still be building the pyramids!
A GOVERNMENT GUY I’VE TALKED TO SAID THE PYRAMIDS WERE BUILT BY THE GREY NON-HUMANS.
It had to be by somebody else, not us humans! No way!
WHAT ARE THE PYRAMIDS REALLY FOR?
We were at the pyramids at night and if you stand there in the center between all three of them (Giza) – there are two smaller ones and the one big one (Cheops) – there are three bright stars that match up with each one. And in the center is the constellation Pleiades. Now, I’ve been told that some of the aliens come from the Pleiades.
DURING ALL THAT TIME IN EGYPT, ADRIAN BUSTINZA NEVER SAID ANYTHING TO YOU UNTIL YOU GOT BACK?
No, he didn't.
OK, HE’S SITTING ACROSS FROM YOU ON THE BED. WAS RELIGION THE VERY FIRST THING HE TALKED ABOUT?
I don’t remember the order.
WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THE POPE?
I don’t know. There was something about the Pope and that they have something at the Vatican. They know exactly what it is and it would destroy religion. Adrian said there were predictions made and they have all come true. There was a last prediction that will not be shown to the public. We know that Pope Pius saw something in 1960 and said, ‘Oh, lock that stuff up!’
FATIMA?
I don’t know. All the Popes see whatever it is, but they won’t release it. Whatever it is, it destroys religion.
DID HE TALK ABOUT THE ALIENS HAVING MADE CHRIST?
Not so much making Christ, but he said Christ had dealings with the aliens. Christ didn’t have a jet to get around on and yet he was supposed to be in China and England and other places.
WHAT MORE DO YOU REMEMBER BUSTINZA SAYING ABOUT OUR GOVERNMENT?
He said the government isn’t real as we see it. The president of the United States isn’t real (not real power). These aliens control everything and the human leaders just answer to whoever. There are people or aliens way above. The president just does his job like a janitor, really. Ben Jamison: Did Adrian say why the aliens are doing all this?
Warren: I don’t know if Adrian said it was for good or for bad. And that’s why I was kind of scared after the conversation. I knew one thing – I wanted to get the hell off that base!” :
“DID YOU ASK HIM WHAT WAS THE ALIEN BEHIND THE LIGHTED SCRIM TALKING TO YOU FOR?
Adrian Bustinza never said it was an alien behind the lighted scrim underground, but it was his impression that it was.
WHAT WAS THE THING BEHIND THE SCREEN TALKING TO YOU FOR? WHAT DID ADRIAN SAY?
The thing was talking to everyone in the room at the same time (telepathically), but individually inside each mind. Explain that! And Adrian said he could not turn his head side-to-side. But that’s really all I remember. That’s why I took enough of it, the main parts and as you said coming into society, I had forgotten that was the main point of the whole thing. Evolution.
WHAT DID HE SAY ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP OF HUMANS TO THE ALIENS? ANYTHING ABOUT THE ALIENS MADE US?
Yeah, basically that we were from them. That’s what Adrian said.
UNDERNEATH IN ALL THESE BASES, THE REALITY BETWEEN HUMAN AND ALIEN COMMUNICATION OF WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE EARTH IS HAPPENING BELOW GROUND AND NOT ON THE SURFACE WE JUST PLAY OUT SO-CALLED HUMAN EXISTENCE?
Our military bases are like a decoy – like a big staged play. I don’t know how or why. I don’t really want to get into this because it wasn’t me really. It was Adrian’s experience and I’m just repeating. Adrian said that if it were all found out, the bases (human? alien?) can be gone like a snap of fingers. What he meant, I don’t know. I asked him, ‘You mean blown up?’ Adrian just said, ‘Gone. You wouldn’t see them.’ Maybe England is a UFO itself?! Who knows? I don’t know. That was it – just mind blowing stuff. If I had never had a UFO experience and someone told me that stuff, I would have said, ‘No way!’ But we have so many surface problems on Earth to deal with and I guess this – underground? – is their home, their bases.
BUT IF THE ALIENS ARE CONTROLLING EVERYTHING ON EARTH, TO WHAT END? IF THE ALIENS ARE WALKING AMONG US DISGUISED AS HUMANS, YOU DON’T REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID ABOUT WHY?
Adrian said what it’s all about, but I don’t remember if it is good or bad. I can’t remember. If it was a good reason they are here or a negative reason. I don’t remember. But I remember leaving that conversation angry and frightened, so I’m sure it probably wasn’t good. I don’t know. But it all seems like games – the humans and their little games in the government as we call them play games. People die in the mean time. Adrian also said that water was an attraction, a necessity, but I don’t know why. Water is a big deal.
AND THE FACT THAT THE ALIENS SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH EITHER DYING OR WEAKNESS?
Well, I think if they are coming here and wanting to stay – this one race or whatever – then they have a problem somewhere. Adrian told me something about their planet is gone or blew up or something like that and the aliens – they have massive ships and they are on the moon and everywhere! But there are different races of aliens, including enemies. I told Adrian, ‘This sounds like Buck Rogers.’ But I had to believe him. I don’t know if I do now. I don’t know. It’s very big!
ONE OF THE SCENARIOS I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY A NEW JERSEY SCIENTIST WHO WAS ABDUCTED IN 1982 IS THAT THE ALIEN SAGA IS
MUCH OLDER THAN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM’S AGE. THEIR ORIGINAL SUN SUPERNOVAED AFTER THE ALIENS WERE ADVANCED ENOUGH TO BUILD TECHNOLOGY TO ESCAPE THEIR HOME PLANET. BUT THEIR PROBLEM IS THAT SOMETHING HAPPENED IN THE EVOLUTION OF THEIR BIOLOGY. THE SCIENTIST SAYS THAT THE ALIENS TOLD HIM THERE IS A BELL-SHAPED CURVE TO THE EVOLUTION OF DNA, SO THAT EVENTUAL DECLINE AND DETERIORATION OF DNA IS GUARANTEED. AND NOW THE NON- HUMANS ARE TRYING TO CREATE OTHER KINDS OF BIOLOGICAL CONTAINERS THAT CAN TAKE ON THEIR SPIRITUAL ENTITIES, THEIR ESSENCE, TO CARRY ON BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEIR BIOLOGY IS DESTINED FOR EXTINCTION. THUS, THIS IS A STORY OF RESURRECTION THROUGH OTHER LIFE FORMS.
Ben Jamison: That might explain the abduction of people who have a higher form of consciousness that other humans don’t have. The abductees are the people being shepherded through. You get this through Philip K. Dick was working through something like this before he died.
[ Editor’s Note: Wikipedia - Philip Kindred Dick (December 16, 1928 – March 2, 1982) was an American novelist, short story writer and essayist whose published work during his lifetime was almost entirely in the science fiction genre. In his later works, Dick's thematic focus strongly reflected his personal interest in metaphysics and theology. The novel The Man in the High Castleconcerned alternate history and earned a Hugo Award for Best Novel in 1963.Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said was a novel about a celebrity who woke up in a parallel universe won the John Campbell Memorial Award for best novel in 1975. Dick wrote of these stories, “In my writing, I even question the universe; I wonder out loud if it is real, and I wonder out loud if all of us are real?” On February 20, 1974, Dick was recovering from the effects of sodium pentothal administered for the extraction of an impacted wisdom tooth. Answering the door to receive delivery of extra analgesic, he noticed that the delivery woman was wearing a pendant with a symbol that Dick called the "vesicle pisces" (correct term would have been Vesica pisces). This name seems to have been based on his confusion of two related symbols, the ichthys (two intersecting arcs delineating a fish in profile) that early Christians used as a secret symbol, and the Vesica piscis, a shape that is the intersection of two circles with the same radius, intersecting in such a way that the center of each circle lies on the circumference of the other. The name literally means the “bladder of a fish” in Latin.
After the delivery woman's departure, Dick began experiencing strange visions. Although they may have been initially attributable to the medication, after weeks of visions he considered this explanation implausible. “I experienced an invasion of my mind by a transcendentally rational mind, as if I had been insane all my life and suddenly I had become sane.” Throughout February and March 1974, he experienced a series of visions, which he referred to as “two-three-seventy four” (2-3-74), shorthand for February-March 1974. He described the initial visions as laser beams and geometric patterns and occasionally brief pictures of Jesus and of ancient Rome. As the visions increased in length and frequency, Dick claimed he began to live a double life, one as himself, “Philip K. Dick,” and one as “Thomas,” a Christian persecuted by Romans in the 1st century A.D. ]
THE SCIENTIST ABDUCTEE SAYS THERE WILL BE A REAPING ON EARTH THAT HUMANS WILL INTERPRET TO BE A NATURAL CATACLYSM. HE PROJECTED THAT ONE-THIRD OF EARTH LIFE WILL BE WIPED OUT, ONE- THIRD WILL REMAIN AND ONE-THIRD WILL BE TAKEN AWAY BY THE ALIENS - A KIND OF REVELATIONS STORY. SEVERAL ABDUCTEES HAVE VARIATIONS ON THIS THEME.
Warren: Well, I don’t think I’m an abductee.
Howe: WHAT IF ADRIAN BUSTINZA WAS ABDUCTED?
Warren: But think for a minute – what if none of what Adrian told me is true.
Ben Jamison: Yes, since 1984, I have been casting around to see if I could find information to corroborate what you told me about Bustinza and there seems to be more and more about cooperating with the aliens. I decided the governments can never release this information because they can’t say they are cooperating with aliens and letting our people be abducted.
Howe: THE MUTILATIONS OF ANIMALS ALLEGEDLY ARE PART OF THE HARVESTING OF GENETIC MATERIAL TO CREATE HUMANOIDS OR ANDROIDS. THAT’S PART OF THE SCIENTIST’S STORY – THAT THE ALIENS CAN WALK AMONG US DISGUISED IN HUMAN CONTAINER BODIES.
Warren: Have you ever seen the real mutilated animal bodies?
Howe: SURE – DOZENS OF THEM. THE FIRST THING THAT HITS YOU IS HOW PERFECT THE ANIMALS ARE LYING THERE, BLOODLESS, CLEAN EXCISIONS. THERE IS NO SIGNS OF VIOLENCE. YOU ARE LOOKING AT ANIMALS THAT HAVE COOKIE CUTTER EXCISIONS AROUND AN EAR, EYE, JAW FLESH, TONGUE, THE GENITALS AND THE RECTUMS ARE CORED OUT.
Warren: Well, I always hear your name when it comes to animal mutilation research. Have you ever heard of people mutilated?
Howe: I have received several anecdotes without proof. There have been reports from Texas and Canada of women discovered with one breast cleanly and bloodlessly removed. The Canadian case was supposed to involve some Royal Canadian Mounted Police that came upon a car parked on the side of a road. The motor was still running, I think. The woman behind the wheel was wearing an expensive tweed suit with nice jewelry. She was dead. When authorities had her examined, it was discovered that her left breast had been removed beneath her still-intact bra. Here left eye, I think, was also removed like animal mutilations. But when I tried to get proof - a pathology report or any forensic confirmation from authorities - I ran into brick walls. I've run into the same stonewalling with coroners offices in some other cases. But I think it's possible that Homo sapiens generally is off limits in the global mutilation of animals because humans are some kind of valuable experiment of the aliens. The non-humans have something serious at stake in what they are doing here on Earth. Human survival is somehow of crucial importance to whatever the alien agenda is - according to the New Jersey scientist who was abducted. I think when we started exploding atomic bombs in 1945, we were going to hurt the alien experiment and provoked all kinds of attention in the first UFO flaps. And I think it's pretty clear from events at Malmstrom AFB in Great Falls, Montana, and Minot AFB in Minot, North dakota, that the aliens can interfere with our nuclear missiles and selectively manipulate targeting information - as described in Minutemen nuclear missiles 80 feet underground beneath thick cement.
Warren: What happened at RAF Bentwaters seems like a dream. Sometimes I ask myself, ‘Did this really happen?’
Howe: I would so much like to talk with Adrian Bustinza. Where is he now?
Warren: You'll never reach him, but his family lives in Texas. He works in a correctional facility or something. He doesn't want anyone to bother him because he has a government job. Chuck De Caro (former 1984 CNN investigative reporter) said Adrian is really shook up. Larry Fawcett inquired some military place for information about me and Bustinza. Fawcett got a card back from the government from whatever agency he was using to trace military people and the reply on both Adrian and me was there were no records of either of us in the USAF.
Jamison: I know someone who talked to Bustinza's parents about organizing a congressional hearing on the Bentwaters incident and the parents said there would be absolutely nothing unless it's White House orders because it's too big for a congressional committee.
Howe: In some ways, you begin to feel like that if we are for the first time as a species becoming conscious of the truth of our makers and experimenters, it's almost as if there is a strange branch in human evolution in which we either become fighters against our keepers? Or we make some exponential leap that is going to throw all of our religious and sociological and biological precepts right out the window? But there are parts of this planet that won't accept other life forms no matter what - it will be Evil. So what does it all mean? If the White House made the announcement tomorrow, some will say the United States is lying and others will say we are all evil and the world keeps going on in irrational conflicts. So, unless the extraterrestrial biological entities themselves make their presence known in a powerful way such as their aerial craft all around Earth and everybody has to look at the skies.
Warren: It's the only way!
Howe: That's right.And one other thing, did Adrian Bustinza suggest a connection between the appearance of UFOs and wars?
Warren: I remember Adrian said there will never again be a war with the Soviet Union directly. He said war would only be indirectly through Third World countries. How Adrian said that specifically and how it fit in, I don't know. But it's all set up that way (like a game?) Just Third World countries - let them fight it out. We support and the Soviets support.
Howe: So the skirmishes stay smaller and more contained? Adrian's telling you that wars are allowed for human entertainment?
Warren: Maybe because war keeps people in fear. I don't think most people want war. But I don't remember Adrian saying - I've never gotten on where these beings are from or who they are. I just saw something in Rendlesham.
Jamison: Maybe American authorities have been told the Greys support the Americans and the Swedes (blond aliens) are the bad guys who deal with the Russians. But maybe it's the other way around - maybe the Russians are told the Greys support them and the Swedes are the bad guys and they are supporting the Americans. What technology could governments have for mind-bending, especially cooperating with UFOs. You can't trust government informants. You couldn't trust Bustinza's story by itself. You couldn't trust your story by itself. My skin began to creep when you said you heard, ‘I want you to see this paper’ and he sat you in a special chair in a special location. Well, it might not have been recording. There is one aspect of mind control that just fascinated government types for about 30 years and that is
influencing people from a distance or through casual contact. And now we have human abductee stories that sometimes seem to be in line with this mind control scenario. And now you are describing our science friend from New Jersey coming up with similar stories.
Linda: Yes, it is fascinating. He and I have talked about his consciously being aware that his body and some other part of himself split in two and he described seeing his body in the car, but he was simultaneously traveling above the round craft and descending inside of it where the several grey beings were waiting and fixed his heart. It's a very complex story, including the evolutionary problem of a very ancient race of other beings. Now he says he was shocked at the idea there could be a bell-shaped curve to the evolution of DNA. He said the aliens communicated it was only because their civilization had evolved for so long that they finally reached a point where the aliens could see that there was some kind of mathematical restriction to the continuation of their DNA. Then there was a Spanish abductee I met who said she saw a hologram aboard an alien craft that showed our Earth when it was covered by molten red lava and then lots of scenes as the planet evolved up to dinosaurs. Then she was shown that the Grey aliens somehow transported different types of dinosaurs off Earth before some kind of destruction and that dinosaurs are preserved on a whole planet somewhere like we would preserve animals in a zoo. She had the impression that the Grey types revere the diversity of life forms and keep all life forms somehow going on a planet or different planets? Throughout the abduction literature, pieces of a similar odd story emerge. And it's a huge, sad story - a motive to survive that I as a human can understand that if we humans were faced with our sun going into supernova and we could get off Earth, there would still be longing to perpetuate life again where the dying sun had once been.
Jamison: Chromosomal structure is constantly changing. The germ plasma that goes on and on probably becomes fatally flawed as a function of time.
Howe: Larry, another subject I should ask you about came to me from a retired military man who knew about a Colonel who stayed with the first captured, live, grey alien at Los Alamos between 1949 and 1952. He said that the alien communicated that reincarnation is real, that the cycling of souls is the machinery of the universe. If reincarnation is real and souls are recycled and aliens are controlling this planet because they have some huge experiment going on, are they in control of our soul recycling? In that alleged briefing paper for the President of the United States I was shown at Kirtland AFB Office of Special Investigations on April 9, 1983, there was a paragraph that said two thousand years ago these extraterrestrials created a being in human form to be placed on this planet to teach humans about love and non-violence. If the aliens interacting with Earth can create human body containers, and you have the Jesus Christ story that says there is life after death, that means there really is another dimension beyond this biological life. The implication was the aliens produced a theatrical production with Christ on a cross to have him killed in front of lots of people and then later walked among some people who recognized him and said, ‘That's Jesus!’ If that was alien theater, the implication is the aliens had already experimented with the Homo sapiens body in their light beam technology that can do all kinds of transporting and even healing. That's one of the Los Alamos stories that the alien there got sick and asked our government to contact his civilization some how so he could be put in one of the light beams to be healed - a kind of resurrection technology. Like Spielberg's E.T. film. And talking about TOP SECRET technology that you said might be related to RAF Bentwaters that might be of interest to the aliens, are you talking about nuclear weapons?
Warren: Yes, nuclear weapons at RAF Bentwaters. Now, when I was in England, that was taboo to talk about. We weren't supposed to have nukes there, but through arrangements with the British government, we had them there. The British population hates nuclear weapons, didn't want them and I can't blame them. Nuclear weapons were already there at Bentwaters, which is why we had the Hot Row weapons storage area! We used to tell the English contractors when they came in and asked, ‘What do you keep inside those Weapons Storage Areas (WSA)?' And we were supposed to tell them, ‘We keep a big cork there and if people ask too many questions, we're going to pull it and sink England.’
Howe: In terms of political control, do you remember anything Bustinza said about any Earth wars, like WWII, the Korean War, other being related?
Warren: No, I don't remember if Adrian did.
Howe: The Pope?
Warren: Something about the Pope and about religion and the average folk don't know anything! But Adrian said the aliens are here and they are in control. But for some reason, as you said, the aliens are allowing humans to do their thing.
Howe: Perhaps the goal is to maintain a more virile biology, us human creations, while they refine us to become more like them. That would imply that inside humans there is a duality that we feel intuitively about it all. If the whole point of religions is to try to homogenize humans and make us all the same and think the same and be the same, something in the essence of Homo sapiens always fights to be separate and apart as an individual. The aliens are supposed to be much more hive-minded than humans. Humans are somehow the opposite of that, even if we are supposed to be an alien creation.”
Until now, I have never made that recording public. But I think it is extremely valuable to share this 24-year-old interview now after more RAF Bentwaters eyewitnesses have come forward, including more about the December 27th Shift Commander's fear and tears after a light entered her car, and Col. Charles Halt going on the record in a June 25, 2009, press release to say the light phenomena encountered by USAF military personnel December 26 - 28, 1980, were “extraterrestrial in origin.” In 1986, Ben Jamison and I were trying to understand all the discrepancies about dates and different descriptions of events by at least half a dozen military personnel who had by then been interviewed by reporter Chuck De Caro for a CNN Special Investigations broadcast about the 1980 RAF Bentwaters events and apparent government cover-up.
I have also discussed with author Peter Robbins my reprinting in the Earthfiles Real X-Files the following 1986 interview with Larry Warren because Larry revealed for the first time to Ben Jamison and me that he was talking about not only his own firsthand experience, but had mixed in with his descriptions the trauma of Sgt. Adrian Bustinza that left Adrian sobbing on his bunk bed.
Larry explained that Sgt. Bustinza did not want to talk to anyone, so Larry said he would get Adrian's story out mixed with his own in order to protect Adrian. To date, Sgt. Bustinza has never spoken about his own experiences on or off the record. Back in 1986, Larry insisted there was only one night of events on December 27, 1980.
We now know from so many other USAF personnel, who were also involved in the RAF Bentwaters phenomena, that there were definitely 72 hours of events from the early morning of December 26 to December 28, 1980 - and even beyond into January 1981. [ See July 29, 2005 Earthfiles. ]
I began by asking Larry Warren how much of what he was going to tell us was conscious, given the 1983 first releases as “Art Wallace” in which he said he “seemed to black out” while standing next to a craft from which non-human beings emerged.
Interview: May 18, 1986, Larry Warren, New Haven, Connecticut: “I was conscious all of the way. Obviously, there are things you don’t know about this. Never unconscious then. I’ve never been unconscious ever.
{Sacha edit. the capitalised questions are LMH, further along in the transcript the capitalisation ends and the questioner is named, either Warren, Howe, Jamieson}
SO THE STORY ABOUT YOUR WAKING UP MUDDY AND WET AS YOU SAID IN THE BBC VIDEOTAPE – YOU SAID, ‘I WAS LOOKING AT MY SHADOW AND IT MOVED. AND THEN I BLACKED OUT.’ TO ME, THAT WOULD BE GOING UNCONSCIOUS.
Right, but it’s not true! What was happening at that time, I didn’t know who I was dealing with. I do know how things happen around this phenomena and how people can be dishonest. I thought at the time the best way to talk about what I saw was to talk about the incident of the ship.
The easiest way to omit an alien or any life form was to say I blacked out. That was simple. As soon as the BBC interview finished in New York, Larry Fawcett (co- author Clear Intent: The UFO Cover-Up © May 1984 by Lawrence Fawcett and Barry J. Greenwood) and I were coming backing in the car on I-95 into Connecticut. Fawcett said to me, ‘I know there is more. You are not telling me everything.’ I said, ‘Larry, that was it! I don’t want to say anymore.’ Larry said, ‘You didn’t black out. You saw aliens, didn’t you?’ I said, ‘Yes, I saw something.’ Now Clear Intent was going to print soon after and I said any inconsistencies in my Bentwaters story was to protect myself that one time with the BBC. And then Larry was pushing me with, ‘I know there is more to it. I’ve been told by other people there was more to it.’ There was never any unconsciousness for me. I was conscious the whole time – unless something happened I’m not aware of. But my saying I blacked out saved me at that time from having to talk about any life form when this Bentwaters case was not that well known.
ON SEPTEMBER 19, 1983, BILL MOORE (Roswell 1947 crash investigator and author) VISITED ME IN DENVER. I HAD STARTED ON THE HBO DOCUMENTARY PROJECT, UFOS: THE E. T. FACTOR, THAT SPRING. IN THAT SEPTEMBER 1983 MEETING, MOORE GAVE ME DESCRIPTIONS OF TWO DIFFERENT NON-HUMANS AT BENTWATERS. BY OCTOBER 1983, I WAS IN WASHINGTON, D. C., AND MET WITH A GOVERNMENT GUY WHO SAID HE HAD SEEN PHOTOGRAPHS FROM ONE OF THE NIGHTS AT RAF BENTWATERS AND THAT ONE OF THE TYPES WAS ‘GROTESQUE’ AND THE GOVERNMENT DIDN’T WANT EARTH TO BE INTRODUCED TO SUCH E.T.S. INSTEAD, THERE WAS AN EFFORT TO TAILOR EVERYTHING AROUND THE GREY TYPES THAT WERE ALSO DESCRIBED THERE AT BENTWATERS. THEN IN FEBRUARY 1984 ABOUT FOUR MONTHS LATER, I WAS TOLD THIS: ‘LARRY WARREN’S STORY WILL CHANGE BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN TOLD TO MUDDY THE WATERS.’
No, my story has never changed.
DID ANYONE FROM AN INTELLIGENCE AGENCY OR MILITARY UNIT ORDER YOU TO MUDDY THE WATERS?
No, they just said, ‘Don’t talk about it.’ It was that simple on the RAF Bentwaters base the next morning in a debriefing. That was it.
AT RAF BENTWATERS? Yes. BUT THERE WAS THE RANDOLPH TELEPHONE CALL WHERE THE GUY SUGGESTED THAT MAYBE IT WOULD BE EASIER IF YOU LAID OFF OF ALL THIS BECAUSE HE COULDN’T GET SOME OF YOUR RECORDS?
That is true. He was a tech sergeant or something. I spoke to a captain at great length earlier in he day. I was fed up with trying after I had just gotten back to Connecticut at that time. It was in the fall. WAS IT 1983? I think it was fall 1983 because I had just started talking after I met Betty Andreasson (abduction syndrome), who is now Betty Andreasson Luca. The circumstance about how this all happened and I came out as a source of information – it was a fluke.
SO YOU HAD NOT TALKED WITH ANYONE BEFORE BETTY ANDREASSON?
Some of my friends and family – and only my mother. I didn’t tell my father about it because I didn’t think he would believe me. But after he saw what was happening to me afterward – my father is an executive, a senior vice president with an insurance company in Connecticut. He’s a very straight type of guy, completely by the book. I didn’t want him to think I had been thrown out of the USAF for anything derogatory because I wasn’t thrown out. I have a fully honorable discharge, great service record. But eventually I had to sit down with my dad and say, ‘Here’s what happened.’ He told me, ‘I have no choice but to believe you.’ And then we got into other things and he found more and more and he began to lose a few friends himself because he had some highly placed government friends and things changed. But my family was basically supportive.
Debriefing by “Armed Forces Intelligence Service” What happened to me – the only time I was told was the next day after the incident – and I’m on the record with you now – I was told as we were all debriefed, signed a bunch of papers. The guys who did the debriefing and collected papers were from the Armed Forces Intelligence Service and I also heard Naval Intelligence different times, but the debriefers identified themselves as Armed Forces Intelligence, whatever that is. They were in plain clothes. It was not an intense thing where you’re under a spotlight. There was some laughing and some jokes, very light – they never mentioned the aliens or UFO – nothing like that.
GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT THEY SAID.
A lot of it was going over military rhetoric about regulations concerning dissemination of information and how we were not to use the phones to talk about the incident, how we were not supposed to write in letters. I sent two letters to my mother, which she never received. That was the first time someone didn’t get a letter from me. If I get defensive or you hear a tone in my voice, it’s only because of five years of this. I know Ben here. Ben has heard a million different things. He knows my end of this story. I knew him ten or eleven years ago when I was a kid. Anyway, back on misinformation or if I was ever told to talk to muddy the waters – never once! The debriefing thing was more or less that we saw a film – which I keep away from – but we saw.
I HAVE WHOLE NOTES ABOUT THAT FILM.
Well, I saw it, I watched it. There was no narration. It was a half-hour or 45 minutes or maybe an hour film. I don’t remember the length because it was – to me, the way I look at it – I believed in UFOs. I don’t know how intensely, but I had seen something in 1974 with my mother. That was the first time to see something, but ever since I was a kid I’ve had an interest. I read a book on the subject just as a kid’s interest. Then that interest faded through the late 1970s – nothing. I just went on and didn’t think about it anymore. But anyway, the debriefing was very mellow and light until the very end. At the very end, our Security Police Commander came in the room, Malcolm Zickler. The intelligence people there, whoever they were, they looked civilian, turned around and they said to us as a group, ‘You can push this. You can leave the service and you can tell what happened, but it’s going to gain you no ground. People are going to laugh at you.’ And they never mentioned the name where the incident took place, Rendlesham Forest! People were getting mad saying, ‘Well, what the hell happened to us? What did we see?’
“Bullets Are Cheap” Malcolm Zickler and the other intelligence agents got around with all this propaganda about our loyalty to the country and went on different subjects and mental games, you know? Zickler comes out and says, ‘If you make it too difficult for us,’ – and this is the one quote I’ll remember for the rest of my life – ‘If you make it too difficult for us, bullets are cheap.’ And we all laughed. That was the sick part of it – we all laughed along. They said, ‘The government – there are millions of ways that your life can be made miserable if you make it miserable for us.’ While everyone was laughing, they said, ‘Sign these papers, a whole hoard of papers, a lot of which we were not allowed to read! We had to just keep going and going with our signatures on all pre-typed – everyone of us had our own personal pre-typed report and everyone had the same thing on each of our papers. We were not allowed to associate with each other publicly or privately. We were to call to a number every morning at 11:30 AM (because I worked nights) to check in. That was another strange thing. You’d call in – I got away from it for awhile because I went to Egypt, but I mean, the day after the debriefing, we all kept calling in and you’d get this voice. First it was Central Security Control (CSC). I said, ‘This is Airman Warren.’ They would say,’Just a minute’ and clicked the phone and it would go to something else in another relay. All of a sudden it would be picked up by a guy who sounded like a diamond salesman back here in Connecticut – that kind of voice. He would get on the phone and say, ‘How are you doing?’ I said, ‘Fine.’ He’d ask, ‘Are you sleeping well?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘Are you talking to anybody or is anyone asking you questions?’ And I said, ‘Yes, of course, all the time, every minute! You go into the chow hall or a bowling alley and people are on you because they know the shift you worked. And a lot of people were joking and making fun. We were checked for radiation, too, with a Geiger counter. None of us had a reading, but this kid had something in his pocket or hand. The Disaster Preparedness people ran a Geiger counter and took whatever the kid had away from him. I don’t know if it was a rock or what it was, but it gave readings and the kid had picked it up from the Rendlesham Forest site of all the phenomena. What he had, I don’t know. And all of that was rather informal.
DO YOU HAVE ANY MEMORY OF THE PEOPLE WHO DEBRIEFED YOU? No. DID THEY USE ANY NAMES?
Yes, they identified themselves as Agent ... and then their last names, Special Agent whatever. I can remember them. One guy had black hair that was all on the side. Another guy had hair kind of like mine with a receding hairline, blondish hair with gray - older, I’d say 35 to 40 years of age, tall, heavy set, big guys. WERE ALL THE AGENTS TALL? Yes, there were two of them, very tall. They looked like your CIA types in the movies. I’d never seen anyone like that before then. I’m 5-feet 9-inches, so they had to be 6 feet or a little taller. I think one guy had to be 6-feet 4-inches, tall like Ben Jamison is.
WERE YOU THE ONLY ONE IN THE ROOM WITH THOSE TWO?
No, it was with a whole group. I was never spoken to alone ever. I had a gate guard tell me, at one of the main gates of RAF Bentwaters that is no longer there for some reason, he told me later on that afternoon after we had been debriefed, he said: ‘I’ve never seen so much Naval Intelligence here on this base.’ We had the Secretary of the Air Force and I saw the United States of America official jet. We had some big people come and I also saw Carter- it was in the transition
period between Presidents Carter and Reagan. Carter had a report on the base that morning after events about what happened – or at least that was told to us. We were told that the U. S. President is fully aware of the circumstance and incidents happening here at RAF Bentwaters. That was the closest authorities got to saying we had really experienced something. But for the most part, they played it all down to us. And there was psychological warfare. You really felt your mind being twisted around! They debriefed different ranks at different times, too. I think I was very outspoken. I was taken off duty eventually, not for any derogatory reason. I was put into an administrative office for security police because I can type. They said they needed someone to fill in and I said I would be glad to. So, I did all this administrative stuff and I hated the job really, too. I should have gone to college, but I had signed up for six years! I didn’t want to do this (administrative work). But also because of the way they treated us after the Rendlesham incident. We were watched every minute. There were people trying to set up drug busts on me and I’m not a drug user. I had only smoked marijuana when I was in high school and only a couple of times. I’m not a saint. And I drank beer, but I’m not a drug user. And when I was in the U. S. Air Force, I used nothing.
BUT AFTER THE BENTWATERS EVENT, AUTHORITIES TRIED TO CONCOCT A SCHEME TO DISCREDIT YOU?
On the base after the incident, I was in an office and kept talking. Every time I saw someone come in, I would start to mention what happened and they would look at me like in that movie about the Invasion of the Body Snatchers and - people changed! They just weren’t the same people. I couldn’t talk to – Adrian Bustinza was the one I knew really the most out of this. I had only been on base about one month when the incident happened. I had been in the U. S. Air Force for only ten or eleven months by then. Anyway, in 1983, I had been trying to get back into the military. I had gone to Congressmen. I had gone to Senators. I called the Pentagon. I sent letters out, including to the U. S. President. I had gone through every aspect. I was becoming an idiot because I was so obsessed with why is this happening to me. And I never put together at that point in 1982 to 1983 why I was being red taped and brick walled everywhere I went. Most military people I knew were not surprised. They said, ‘You’re pushing it? You’re talking about it?!’ I had a guy tell me, ‘I’m amazed you are still walking.’ I said, ‘I don’t like to think of my government that way.’ But the people who were in charge were very smart, a lot smarter than the 20-year-old kid I was. At that age, you think, ‘Oh, I can take this on and I can win it.’ But I couldn’t.”
“THE ROOM FOR THE DEBRIEFING (WITH MALCOLM ZICKLER), WAS WHERE?
The room was in Chief of Security’s office (Maj. Malcolm Zickler).
JOHN BURROUGHS?
Halt told me that John Burroughs grabbed the craft.
WAS JOHN BURROUGHS IN YOUR DEBRIEFING? No. WAS ADRIAN BUSTINZA IN THE OFFICE DEBRIEFING?
Adrian was there. He was a Staff Sergeant.
DID SGT. BUSTINZA SEE THE SAME FILM YOU SAW AT RAF BENTWATERS AFTER HIS ALASKA EXPERIENCE?
[ More about film in subsequent report.] When we were out there and we were going through the field to the site (of phenomena) and before I knew what was going on, Adrian said to me, ‘This is just like what happened to me in Alaska.’ But when Larry Fawcett (Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, CAUS) talked to Adrian, Adrian said, ‘No, I made a mistake. I meant California, at a base in California.” But I thought he told me at Bentwaters that it was like what happened to him in Alaska. Whatever happened to him before, Adrian said there were a lot of people at RAF Bentwaters that were at his previous base with OSI (Air Force Office of Special Investigations).
WHICH NIGHT DO YOU THINK YOU HAD YOUR RAF BENTWATERS EXPERIENCE?
I’ve never put a date on it because I chose not to. All I’ve ever said is that it was after Christmas and before New Year’s and there was only one night I knew about. I thought it was the same night that Col. Halt was in Rendlesham Forest.
[ Editor's Note: That was definitely December 28, 1980. However, Larry Warren remembered coming across the Shift Commander being treated by a medic and the only known such event was Lt. Bonnie Tamplin in the early morning hours of December 27, 1980. December 26, 1980, Staff Sgt. Jim Penniston and Airman John Burroughs encountered black, triangular craft in Rendlesham Forest and had 45 minutes of missing time; December 28, 1980, John Burroughs and Sgt. Adrian Bustinza both remember running towards red-orange light that told John seemed to lift Burroughs up into it. See: July 17, 2009 Earthfiles Parts 1 - 6; and September 3 and 17, 2009 Earthfiles Parts 1 - 2. ]
You see, I was in USAF Security Police and that base was buzzing the next day. Someone even went to the trouble of making a false landing site with false marks on the ground so nothing would be detected. Those people making the false landing site told me they were sent to do this! I asked, ‘Why?’ It was like a game. There were so many rumors swirling on the base and you couldn’t say anything. But I called my mother the very next day and that’s when I got in trouble.
DO YOU REMEMBER THE SUN COMING UP?
I remember the whole thing from the beginning. The flight before me – I was getting ready to go on duty. We got a knock on the door. It was the Supervisor of Security Police and he said ‘We’ve got an alert status. It’s a full alert. At the time, we were having trouble with Russia possibly moving into Poland and we were going to have a lot of alerts. So, we asked, ‘Do we need chemical warfare equipment?’ He said, ‘No, just bring flak vests and your alert bag and go to the bus.’ So, we picked up the bus. The whole flight would go out for duty, the shift. [ Larry Warren was in D Flight.] But not Adrian Bustinza - he was not on my shift. He worked a different shift. My shift all got to Central Security Control (CSC) and when that other shift came off duty, we had guard mount and everything. Guard mount checked you to see if you were under the influence of drugs, alcohol or anything – if anything is wrong, you are not issued a weapon because we were around nuclear weapons. That’s another thing about the issue of being on drugs. You’re gone, jack! They give you tests and everything before you’re even out there in security.
I was put on a permanent post that is only manned during a base alert. It was called Perimeter Post 18. It’s at the very bottom of the RAF Bentwaters flight line. That post is designated in the event of enemy aircraft trying to land on the base, on the field, during an attack, and you’re supposed to shoot them down. You’d live about three minutes there, I think! At that post, I started to hear all the talk by walkie-talkie from the Weapons Storage Area (WSA). We had a tower there that was 80 feet tall and we were about six miles from RAF Woodbridge. They are talking about lights! They are saying they see a red light over – I didn’t know it was Rendlesham Forest at that moment - but over near RAF Woodbridge base near the woods. The Flight Chief got on (the walkie-talkie frequency) and wanted coordinates and directions. He seemed very interested and I’m looking up in the sky and I couldn’t see anything. But they were in a tower so they could look out that direction above the trees.
WHO WAS THE FLIGHT CHIEF?
Sgt. Bobbie Ball. He came on and asked for coordinates and directions. Now at this point, I’m standing there and I hear rustling – there was kind of a little hill and then a fence and then the road and then up to where my post was with the flight line. And here comes something running out of the darkness – it’s like a thundering herd of some sort and they are deer. They are coming down the fence and two deer shot off this way up the fence line toward the Rod and Gun Club. Two deer jumped over the fence and ran up past my post. I could have touched them! Down the hill, the deer jumped the fence again and disappeared in a field. They were scared! There was no aircraft flying that night at RAF Bentwaters – none! Then I got picked up from my Perimeter Post 18 by Lt. Englund and Sgt. Adrian Bustinza. We got in the truck. They had to clear permission for me to leave my post. We drove to the motor pool and that’s when strange stuff started to happen.
IF IT WAS THE END OF ADRIAN BUSTINZA’S SHIFT, WHY DO YOU THINK HE WAS WITH LT. ENGLUND TO PICK YOU UP?
Because Lt. Englund worked Bustinza’s shift. They had a sighting – Bustinza had had his sighting already.
COULD THIS BE THE NIGHT OF THE TAPE RECORDING WITH LT. HALT (December 28, 1980)?
There were a number of objects involved with the landing, I’m sure. What Col. Halt recorded – I know a lot of it because I was very close to what was going on. A lot of the transmissions, some were the people I was with. Just in transmissions, you could hear, ‘Can we have permission to enter?’ ‘No, not at this time.’
THIS IS PUZZLING TO ME. THE TAPE RECORDING THAT EVERYONE SEEMS TO AGREE IS REAL ...
Yes, it is real, 100%. ...
DESCRIBES MEN IN THE FOREST TRYING TO EITHER FOLLOW LIGHTS OR TO WATCH A LIGHT THAT IS MOVING THROUGH THE TREES. THAT’S VERY DIFFERENT FROM BOTH YOUR AND OTHER EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS OF THE ASPIRIN-SHAPED, 12-INCHES HIGH, 25 FEET WIDE, ALMOST TRANSPARENT OBJECT.
“Aspirin” Circle of Fog It was on the ground! People always said it floated, but it was not a solid thing. It was like a circle of fog! It was green and yellow and I always said it was 12 inches off the ground, but I meant it was 12 inches in height!
12 INCHES FROM THE GROUND UP.
Right. It never floated up in the air. It was like fog in a circle on the ground. I can tell you what definitely happened (that I experienced). John Burroughs and Adrian Bustinza and a third person I can’t name because I don’t know his name – they had seen an object just like Col. Halt’s report said down in the forest. They got permission to go out and had to leave weapons behind because it was off our USAF base territory. They get out there and see it and whatever happened as they got in close contact with it – at one point someone threw a big stick at it! I got this directly from the sources. It flew, kept maneuvering (in the trees) and would disappear at times and appear BEHIND them and then appear again IN FRONT! It was real mind boggling! I was also told that John Burroughs circled around, went down a little slope and then went up and the craft was kind of sitting there. The object was small. It was not the same thing I saw (aspirin-shaped fog). John Burroughs grabbed the craft, or touched it, and it moved. I don’t know if John was on it. There were no ramps. There was nothing. No windows. No identification on anything that was seen. John moved for a distance with the craft. It had a profound effect on him and John did not want to leave those woods. After like what I saw, you have no control. You are in awe! I handled it better than some officers that ran away. Now, think of that – I was an Airman 1st Class and there were some officers that ran off in the woods and leave you. This happened! Also, I could not move. I don’t know if it was from paralysis from fear or the shock of it. I knew what I was seeing! But I couldn't make it all register in my head somehow.
WERE PARTS OF YOUR BODY MOVING AND YOU DID NOT HAVE MENTAL CONTROL?
No, I had control. But I couldn’t do it as fast as I wanted. I had a watch. SLOW MOTION? I tried to look at my watch and I remember just numb – like everything fell asleep. I really felt weird! And other people did not feel that.
PROBABLY SELECTIVE MENTAL MANIPULATION – SOMETHING THAT THE NON-HUMANS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE VERY SKILLED AT DOING.
They must be skilled in a lot of things because I’ll tell you what happened. I was there – I know! This object came down. They saw it and it disappeared. They contacted Col. Halt, who came out with a number of people. General Gordon Williams was not involved yet. He was at a holiday party, a Christmas party. He was with a squadron that just came back from Germany and they were having a big celebration at the Officer’s Club. Gordon Williams got out there – remember I wasn’t on duty at this point. Col. Halt gets out there and this is Adrian Bustinza’s version of it. They all went out into the Rendlesham woods. They had Disaster Preparedness show up. They had Geiger counters and they found everything you hear on the tape (Halt’s audiotape). The landing site. The markings (in the ground).
IS THIS AROUND MIDNIGHT?
No, this first incident happened before midnight, around 10 PM. No matter what time Halt had on his report, the first part happened around 10 PM. YOU WERE WHERE THEN? I was still getting ready to go on duty.
AND GENERAL WILLIAMS IS AT THE CHRISTMAS PARTY.
Williams was at a Christmas party.
AND HALT AND BUSTINZA WERE TOGETHER?
Halt and Bustinza were together. Bustinza was security police who was patrolling a perimeter fence line. John Burroughs was like a cop-on-the-beat type of guy. And I
think Burroughs was the first to report it and they got a few people to go out into the woods. Now, the incident that happened to them happened. Col. Halt responded to it. They investigated. They found evidence that something set down in that forest.
IS IT YOUR IMPRESSION THAT IT’S AT THIS TIME THAT JOHN BURROUGHS HAS AN INTERACTION WITH THE LIGHT, SEPARATE FROM WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE ‘ASPIRIN’? YOU SAID THAT JOHN BURROUGHS WENT UP AND TRIED TO TOUCH THE SMALL CRAFT?
When only three of them were in the woods, John Burroughs tried to grab the craft. What he did with it, I don’t know. It was a solid object and very small. But what I saw could not be amid those dense trees.
SO, JOHN BURROUGHS, ADRIAN BUSTINZA AND SOMEONE ELSE.
Right. Now, when Col. Halt gets out there, he takes the three initial eyewitnesses and spoke to them. Then they go out into the forest. We retraced their footprints where they went. Col. Halt and a number of people were there investigating this – Lt. Englund and others. They get out to the area and they see something was definitely there. They are getting radiation traces. They had hand-held light-alls, big lights, to light the area. They also had malfunctions constantly with their radios. At this point, there was a dirt track that they thought if they brought in some big generator light-alls, they could light the forest to see if the craft was hiding out there. That’s why they called back and said, ‘We need extra equipment out here. Put the base on extra alert, something is going on.’ They thought it could be Soviet or anything. This is a fact. Now, this is why the only reason that I was chosen to go out there is that you need two people to set up light-alls. I knew how to do it. They picked me up, and Bustinza, in a security police pickup truck, not a jeep. We got up in the pickup truck and took off for the motor pool. Now, we get into the motor pool and set up the light-alls. Captain Verona comes along. Capt. Verona was a nice guy and very down to earth. We tried to fill these things up with gas and they had a meter on them. And we filled it up and this is where – Capt. Verona might have been involved in the first incident. I don’t know because he was acting weird. People were uptight. Capt. Verona came over and looked at the gauge and said, ‘Fill up the goddamn gauge! What’s wrong with you guys? Fill up the light-all!’ We said, ‘We did, sir!’ And he says, ‘No, you didn’t!’ I said, ‘Sir, it is full!’ We did it again and gasoline spilled out! Capt. Verona said, ‘Leave the goddamn thing alone! Just take it.’ I don’t know what was going on. There was a funny feeling in the air – I felt it. We took the light-alls. We drove. There was another truck in the front of us. We drove out of the motor pool to the main gate of RAF Bentwaters, the base itself, the living quarters. When we got there, there was a convoy of vehicles – security police pickup trucks. There were about five in all. Two had light-alls, our truck, the one in front and then a few other pickup trucks had some men in them. Then, there were two law enforcement police cars. We pulled up and got into a line on the side of the road and then took off. As we were driving the six miles to RAF Woodbridge base, it was a very dark night. I had my radio on open channel and I’m hearing definitely from Woodbridge, ‘Tell the Bentwaters’ – it was a call from the law enforcement desk at Bentwaters – ‘Get the CO!’ That was the Commanding Officer, CO, which was General Gordon Williams. Then were some communications about the CO to have him call back on this designated code. Now, we get out there to the site. We’re coming along kind of a winding road and get to the end and you could see the lights for the field at RAF Woodbridge. There were
some flares in the road. There was a civilian car here and a couple down on the other side, but they had kind of a makeshift roadblock. There was a real tall security police guy, a black guy. We stopped the trucks for a minute. We’re going around this police car. There was a woman in the car and a little girl asleep in the backseat. I was like this (in pickup truck) looking down (into car) and the black security police guy was telling the mother there was unexploded ordnance in the area and they were just removing it. That might be where stories of a plane crash came from. I heard that with my own ears. We drove away and when we got down just past the field, the flight line, we took a left into the woods on a dirt track. We drove about a half-mile to a mile and stopped in this kind of circular area where all the vehicles were parked. We got out. At that point, I saw an armory vehicle - they take care of all the weapons. We were told to turn in weapons. We did so. We were told to turn on our radios. We were put in groups of four to five.
I HAVE OTHER INFORMATION THAT YOU FORMED INTO FIVE GROUPS OF SIX MEN EACH: LARRY WARREN, ADRIAN BUSTINZA, LT. ENGLUND, MASTER SGT. SWIFT, SGT. LAW AND SOMEBODY ELSE?
It was Smith, not Swift.
SO THAT IS WHO WAS MOVING WITH YOU?
Yes, but there were a number of different groups going into the woods. There were a lot of people involved in this.
AT LEAST 30 OF YOU IF THERE WERE FIVE GROUPS OF SIX MEN EACH.
There was just about half a shift of security police and that’s made up of almost 150 people (half would be 75 people). There were a lot of people who were not security police out there! I don’t know who they all were. We get into these makeshift groups of people – I was basically with the same people I drove out with. There was a dirt track, a little path, that we followed into the woods. We get down there about 100 yards and we take a right and we start walking. It was dense forest then. Now, off to my left, I see in the distance maybe 50 yards away through the trees a lot of activity going on. Red tape or orange kind of tape around trees. Light-alls and flares on the ground. We get a call, ‘Stay away from hot spots.’ What does that mean? Radiation. This area where they were marking off and people were walking around are the landing sites that Col. Halt described on the tape and the activity. But they were far away from us at this point.
WHAT TROUBLES ME IS WHY WOULD I HAVE BEEN TOLD TO LISTEN FOR LARRY WARREN’S STORY TO CHANGE?
I can assure you that I never intentionally – well, I did change the story and I did lie intentionally twice. One time was to protect myself and one time was hoping that I would be joined by more people and they could tell their underground experience. I thought I paved the way because I thought if I said it secondhand - if there is something to it, I don’t know. I could have been given misinformation about this and I thought there is no way anyone is going to know.
Larry Warren Says He Did Not Black Out, But Is Uncertain of Dates and Times SO, YOUR SAYING YOU SAW THE SHADOW AND THEN BLACKED OUT WAS YOUR FIRST LIE?
It was to protect me. I lied about the fact that I blacked out. But I was just not saying what happened. Larry Fawcett thought I was lying about that and this was with the
BBC in October 1983. Fawcett in Clear Intent printed that and they knew well in advance that wasn’t the way it was (that Larry did not black out). I didn’t know if I wanted to take the ball and talk about aliens. I really didn’t. Talking about spaceships was hard enough. People think you’re nuts.
SO, YOU WERE MOVING DOWN THE ROAD ...
We had just turned and were walking into the woods. Out this way to my left was activity that lit up the trees. There were men, Air Force people. They had the light- alls. We could not get the light-alls dragged out there to where the other people were. They just gave up. The light-alls were never used, as far as I know. People have said our shadows were cast on the object from light-alls in the field. That is completely untrue. That was someone’s perception. We never could get light-alls out there. That whole field was lighted by the object (landed craft). There was not one bit of other light except little bitty flashlights. That thing (craft) was bright! There were farmers in the area and they saw it because a guy came out – I could see his house. So, there were civilians that did see what happened.
DID ANY LIGHT-ALLS WORK?
The ones we dragged out there, the big generator ones, they never lit up. But they did light up one in the back of our truck to light our staging area where we went to organize. We turned in weapons – that took a little bit of time. The time frame – I’m really not sure about. About midnight. But the Halt thing was happening after 2 AM. I think Halt was happening concurrently with our incident. You have to remember something if you listen on the tape. Halt was investigating something quite far off from where I described what happened (with foggy “aspirin.”) You hear him walking to a clearing. The clearing he went to was a good half-mile from the clearing where this “aspirin” landing happened with Williams. Halt was not involved (at Williams site). I never knew he was there (that night where Warren was). Col. Halt also told Lee Spiegel at NBC, ‘He (Larry Warren) was involved in the incidents, but he was not with me.’ And that is true. Col. Halt was apparently out there the exact same time taking men. Lt. Bruce Englund, by the way, left us – he walked away from our group. We did not have Lt. Englund as we were going out to the site. He was not with us. I believe he joined Col. Halt and their investigations out in that area (far from us). There might have been a number of landings out there that I don’t even know about. But when I heard Col. Halt’s tape, the whole thing fit together. They had things going on out that way. Now, I describe when we get to the clearing, the first thing that struck me is that I saw a very bright light you can’t describe coming into the woods through the trees. And as we were walking towards this – I was next to Adrian – I started to say something and someone told me to shut up. At this point, Adrian says to me, ‘This is just like what happened in Alaska.’ I say Alaska and that might be wrong (in memory). Adrian started getting nervous. I said, ‘What?’ The whole time I felt like we were playing war games, which we did occasionally. We got out to the trees very close and I could see a guy sitting next to a tree. I believe this might have been John Burroughs. I don’t know. He was leaning against the tree, not broken down quivering like with a nervous breakdown. He was just sitting there next to the tree. Sgt. Bobbie Ball was over with him and they are all talking. Sgt. Ball was trying to console the guy, ‘It’s alright.’ It seemed like some people knew what was going on.
BUT YOU DON’T KNOW WHO THE GUY WAS WHO WAS UPSET?
No, I’m not sure because at this point, my mind was looking more at this thing (foggy aspirin). I see people walking around – a lot of people out there! I saw a video camera that cost probably around $40,000, like a news camera. And I saw a 35 mm handheld camera that someone was using. Some people were taking photos of this stuff on the ground that is very hard to describe (foggy “aspirin”), but I feel like I could have walked through it. Now, as we walked, there was a little wall of broken stone and a wire fence. We walked over that and are now right in the field with this thing – just a little further out and looking at it. As we stood there looking, I could see in the distance, there were a couple of houses. And there were two cows. Later on with Larry Fawcett, Adrian asked, ‘Does Larry remember the cows?’ And I said, ‘I sure do!’ The cows walked up right next to us and we’re looking at this aspirin thing. I don’t know if I’m missing time or what, but I don’t remember where the cows went. I don’t honestly remember what happened to them. It’s strange. Maybe I don’t remember certain things.
I THINK YOU HAD TIME LOSS.
I think all of us might have.” “Col. Halt told Lee Spiegel at NBC that the implications of what happened are so great that the only way the Colonel will ever speak about it is in a Congressional inquiry – not through a newspaper article. Col. Halt was not talking just about lights in the sky. He’s talking about full-blown contact, which there was. But I don’t think that a lot of people there (military at RAF Bentwaters) believed in UFOs. You hear Col. Halt say on the audiotape he ran, ‘We’ve run into the first ‘night bird’ we’ve seen’ - just after the red light. That’s a USAF term for ground observance of an unidentified flying object. NIGHT BIRD? Night bird. A friend of my father’s here in the Air National Guard of Connecticut says that phrase, ‘night bird,’ is in the manuals he uses. So, back to Rendlesham Forest in December 1980. We’re standing there looking and I hear the sound of a helicopter. Now, the 67th Air Rescue Recovery Squadron on RAF Woodbridge was very loud. They could have been revving a chopper up on the field? Never saw one fly over. And I was never really told what to do. I was just standing there. Disaster Preparedness went up next to this mist (aspirin-shaped) and one guy looked like he was trying to do something with it – I don’t know what? DID HE TOUCH IT? No. He had something that maybe looked like a Geiger counter – I don’t know, but he was near the mist thing.
Red Light “Explodes” Over White, Misty “Aspirin” At this point, there was a bank of trees way off in the distance about a mile or so away and you could see a red star appear. I noticed it right away. Over the radios – the people who had radios had open channels and you could hear some communications. I believe Col. Halt was probably going through the radios, too, on open channels when he was talking. I heard, ‘Here it comes!’ This light looking at it – it was very obvious and everyone was saying, ‘Oh, my God, look at that!’ The red light just seemed to get bigger and bigger. And before I knew it, the thing was doing an arc down the field. It came down and let’s say this (gestures in front of him at coffee table) is the round mist on the ground. The red light stopped above it (gestures above the coffee table, est. 20 feet above mist). I was standing over here (gestures a few feet from coffee
table). And the red light was like the size of a basketball. It looked like a basketball, but not metal. It was a ball of red fluorescence. It was there and then it went BAM! (exploding) and everything fell on the mist (aspirin-shape). WHAT EXPLODED? There was every color you could imagine, strands of light. I never can describe this to people. It was multi-colors of the brightest lights you ever saw in your life, but in a controlled fall on to this misty thing from about 20 feet in the air above. I don’t know how to describe it. But that was all on someone’s film or video.
PIECES OF LIGHT?
Shards of light. I can picture it in my mind, but I can’t describe it.
DID THOSE ‘SHARDS OF LIGHT’ FALL RIGHT ONTO THE ‘ASPIRIN’?
Everything just right on it, staying inside the perimeter of that fog. I know it’s unorthodox and a different kind of description of UFOs, but this is what happened. And then the craft popped in - it didn’t come in ‘conventionally.’ Maybe there was already an invisible craft there (where fog-aspirin was)? Who knows?
AT THAT MOMENT WHEN THE SHARDS OF LIGHT FELL ON THE MIST, IS THAT THE EXACT MOMENT THAT THE CRAFT POPPED INTO YOUR VIEW?
I think so. All I know is the falling pieces of light happened and then there was this machine there. You didn’t have a chance to react. As soon as the craft popped in, I said, ‘Oh, my God!’ But it was not a saucer shape. It was a triangular thing. It looked very heavy. Someone there made the comment, ‘This thing is not aerodynamically capable of flight!’ And it looked to me very heavy and very old. I don’t know why. And the weight of it – I mean, it was big! It had boxes and pipes and things (on the triangular craft). There was a bank of very bright blue down on the bottom and very bright red on the top. But it wasn’t a light – it was aglow. No windows, no doors, no markings whatsoever. If I stood next to it – I’ve tried to draw it to scale in comparison to say a 6-foot-tall man – it would be maybe like this.
WOULD THAT BE 15 FEET HIGH?
About fifteen feet to twenty feet high, but I didn’t measure the damn thing! It was not massive, but it was big and it could not have fit in the forest (amid so many trees growing close together). (Back in 1983) Nippon TV made a model based on my description that looked just like what I saw.
WAS COL. GORDON WILLIAMS STANDING WITH YOU?
He was not even there at that point. I was standing on the side where these things came from. And soon after, Col. Williams arrived with some other brass – people who came in with him – about five or six other people. Eventually, people circled the triangular craft. There was Security Option 3 that is in the event of a nuclear bomb that’s gone amuck – you in security are supposed to surround it! I swear to God!!
TO PUT YOUR HANDS OUT AND SAY, ‘PLEASE DON’T BLOW UP’?!
(laughs) Yes, please don’t blow up! And that’s what we did. I stayed where I was and Sgt. Adrian Bustinza was next to me. Other people were moving around, but Adrian and I just stood there in place. But I remember Col. Williams came with other brass, a guy was walking with a 35mm camera, and there was a big video thing on a tripod - so everything was filmed or videotaped!
I heard that the base news agency got wind of what was going on out there in the forest and went there with their cameras. Maybe that’s how they had cameras there? Everyone seemed so surprised, really.
BUT YOU FELT THAT COL. GORDON WILLIAMS KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON?
Well, I felt that Col. Williams has been trained to deal with a situation like this – not that he had pre-warning, but at least he seemed upset, but kept his composure, you know?
OK, COL. GORDON WILLIAMS, ADRIAN BUSTINZA, YOU, THE VIDEOTAPE PHOTOGRAPHER AND THE 35MM PERSON. ANY OTHERS YOU SPECIFICALLY REMEMBER?
Various others without specifics.
Beings in Spheres of Light
OK, THE BIG, TRIANGULAR CRAFT IS IN FRONT OF YOU. WHAT HAPPENED?
We stood and kept looking at the damn thing. Time frame? I really don’t know anymore. Then all of a sudden, I know some people ran away.
TRIANGLE CRAFT STILL HAS THE BLUE AND RED GLOWS?
Yes, there was the band of bright blue light on the bottom and a red glow on top.
WAS IT WHITE IN BETWEEN?
Light metallic and almost burned (scorched) looking with boxes and things that stuck out.
DID THE LIGHT SHINE ON THE GROUND AROUND?
No. It emitted light, but it didn’t glow, so to speak. I can’t describe it. The thing was just bright! I can’t describe it, but it lighted the area – that’s all I can say – with the glows. But it was bright at the same time. At that point, I tried to look at my watch and a couple of people ran away.
DO YOU MEAN LITERALLY RAN AWAY AS IF AFRAID?
Yes, took off. They came back, I think, but they ran! Master Sergeant Bobby Ball at this point came up and said, ‘Let’s go a little closer.’
WHERE WAS SGT. BALL? There were people all around, security, but he came to me from behind me and said, ‘Let’s go up a little closer. I want to check something out.’ We went up closer to the object and Adrian Bustinza and I walked up a little ways and then we walked back. Now, as we walked closer to the craft, the object had a kind of concave arc up – you could look up the thing – and I noticed our shadows were cast (on it). This is another thing I can’t explain. Our shadows were cast up the side of the craft. We walked and would stop and our shadows took another step. We’d step again and stop and our shadows took another step. And we started to notice this! Then a light of some sort came zigzagging around these boxes (protruding from craft) and stopped near the heads of our shadows. I can’t describe this well either, but there was a little green zigzag that went back up to the top where the red glow was. We stood and we noticed the moving-shadow effect. Now, this is the point where three years ago in 1983 when I first talked that I said I blacked out. But I did not black out. We were told, ‘OK, back up. Let’s get away from this thing!’ We stood back. I said, ‘Well, what are we supposed to do?’ The answer was, ‘Just hang in there, relax, and we’ll see.’
THAT WAS SGT. BALL TALKING TO YOU?
Yes. And Capt. Verano was doing something with people. Anyway, here comes the light out of the side of the craft. It started to get bright around this delta-shaped craft. I never saw a door open, but this little ball of light comes around the side. People start backing up again into the trees almost. I just stood there and could see this thing was a ball of light. It was not three beings walking out of the craft. These things had to be about three feet tall – they were little and inside the light. They were not on the ground. They were above the ground and floated out. But I didn’t see anything except the ball of light at first. COLOR? It was gold, bronze, mist and the three, small beings are inside it. I’m standing there and Adrian says, ‘See them?! Look at it – you can see them!’ I said, ‘What?’ And the first thing I could see – because you had to look really hard at this misty light – you could see eyes, sets of eyes inside the thing. They were definitely eyes – black, big eyes just like in the movies! I don’t remember what I did then. I watched, I was an observer from here on. How I reacted, I don’t know. The light thing seemed to dissipate. People were saying, ‘Oh, my God! I can’t believe this!’ But the beings were still encased in the glow – there was something they were within. The misty ball of light changed into three separate glows. Those moved away from that one glowing unit, or whatever it was. Now they were apart – there were three. I first started to rationalize it as being children, kids. I don’t know why, but I remember thinking they were kids. I had weird thoughts, I guess trying to rationalize what I was seeing. But I also thought it was real, that I was seeing it, that this was happening everywhere in the world (like an invasion). I thought, ‘Oh, my God!’ That’s one of the biggest problems having this happen to you is that all of a sudden you realize the average person doesn’t know what is going on.
COULD THE ENTITIES HAVE BEEN 4-FEET-TALL?
I don’t know. They were about 3 feet tall. And they were four feet off the ground in the light thing. I don’t think they were taller than 3 to 3.5 feet. They were very, very tiny things! But you could see very clearly that they had clothing, they had no helmets. I did not notice hands very much. I didn’t notice feet, although they had what looked like legs. There was a black band around each waist and a long kind of thing, a pole? something they had that was silver-colored.
WERE THE BEINGS ALL SILVER-SUITED? OR WERE ANY OF THEM BLACK-SUITED?
Well, there was a thing – I heard that Bustinza said there were more things out there. Now, he says I saw it, but I don’t know if I did. There was supposedly one entity going over our heads – maybe in black. I don’t remember, or maybe I don’t want to remember. I don’t know.
SOME MILITARY PEOPLE SAY THAT SOME OF THE GREY BEINGS THAT WEAR BLACK LEOTARD SUITS ARE ‘GUARDS’ AND THE SILVER-SUITED ONES ARE USUALLY THE LEADER, THE SCIENTIST, OR?
There was probably something else there. BEN JAMISON: There was one over your head? I don’t know. Other guys said there was something else flying around, but I don’t know. I know I saw aliens – I hate that word.
NO, WE’RE TRYING TO TALK HERE ABOUT THE REALITY OF IT – NOT POLITICAL MISINFORMATION.
Yeah, people! I have been trashed so many times and people don’t realize that I saw this.
Makes me sick, this aspect of trashing. I do dream about what I saw every now and then and it’s unpleasant. And I have horrible nightmares sometimes.
WHAT SORT OF NIGHTMARE? I feel they are coming after me and I don’t like that! WHEN YOU FEEL THEY ARE COMING AFTER YOU, WHAT IS IN YOUR MIND WHEN YOU SAY THAT?
I had one (nightmare) recently. My wife says I wake up all crazy. The dreams are too real. Too real! WHAT HAPPENS? I just have a feeling that they are out there and flying around. The dreams are so real. In this last dream – and I have never dreamed of UFOs before December 1980. I never dream of the (Bentwaters) incident, but in this recent nightmare, I dreamed that this thing – they were outside the window and I could look up and see something big and dark going over in the sky at night. I say, ‘Oh, my God! Oh, my God!’ And I ran outside. I was in another house that I used to live in. Then I went into the bathroom. This is going to sound stupid, but I thought one of them (grey alien) was in the shower. ‘What am I going to do?’ And I could hear them talking to me and I don’t like that.
WHAT DID YOU HEAR?
I don’t remember, but I know it’s talk. I don’t remember, but I hate this.
Larry Warren Hypnosis Sessions LET’S GO BACK TO THE POINT IN THE FRED MAX HYPNOSIS SESSION WITH YOU (ARRANGED BY LARRY FAWCETT) THAT PARALLELS WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT IN THE FOREST?
That Fred Max hypnosis – I went to Fred’s – and I’ve told Ben this and Larry Fawcett can vouch – I was not that comfortable with it. Some things I think I said – I probably didn’t tell him the whole picture – but I don’t know if I was out (deeply hypnotized). Fred insisted I was, but I said, ‘I don’t think I’m out.’ At one time, I think I had the best hypnosis that startled me. WITH WHOM? Patricia Sable, who is a psychotherapist, and we did this hypnosis session for the Japanese TV that filmed it. I said I didn’t want to do it, but the Japanese said it was part of the agreement to go to Japan, which I wanted to do. I saw the film for the first time in Japan. I don’t remember any of it and I said, ‘Oh, my God! That works!’ I was skeptical about hypnosis. But here was me sounding like a 19-year-old kid in some dialect I used to speak (that has changed after) and then schooling has taken away. I was amazed and actually embarrassed it was being shown. Pat is really good.
SO NIPPON HAS THE HYPNOSIS SESSION?
I have the video. I have a couple of the shows I did in Japan.
WHAT HAPPENED IN THE FRED MAX HYPNOSIS WHEN YOU DESCRIBED DOGS BARKING?
I said there were dogs out in the field. But I thought maybe they were dogs next to Fred’s house. Fred Max said you can hear and be aware of other things when you’re under.
OK, LET’S PICK UP WITH COL. GORDON WILLIAMS AND PEOPLE WITH HIM IN YOUR HYPNOSIS SESSION WITH FRED MAX. I AM QUOTING FROM THE TRANSCRIPT:
‘Col. Williams is there. Who is Col. Williams? The commander. Is there anyone with him? Men are with him. You are all right near this
craft? Yes. Nobody is talking yet? Everyone is in groups. Do you hear helicopters when they fly? Yes. Do you hear dogs barking in the distance? Yes.’
THEN THERE IS SOMETHING THAT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND AND YOU ARE SAYING, ‘... under it.’ FRED MAX ASKS,
‘What do you mean? People under what? The ship. How do you know that? I see them. How many? There are four. Do they look like people? No. What do they look like? Kids, small. How tall? They are in the air. Who is in the air? They are. Independent of their craft? Yes. How are they doing that? I don’t know. Are you scared? A little. Funny, there are three in front of Col. Williams and four in front of us.’
LARRY WARREN: That means there were seven alien beings there? No, no! Then I was lying for some reason. That’s not true.
UNLESS IT WAS AN IMAGE THAT YOU HAD AND NOW YOU ARE REPRESSING WHAT HAPPENED?
That’s not true. If I said that, then I lied for some reason (in Fred Max hypnosis).
LET’S PICK UP WHERE YOU HAVE THREE BEINGS IN THE LIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU – IN THE AIR, THE LITTLE ONES?
Yes. There might have been a fourth. I don’t know. But there were three. And that’s what I can say.
ARE YOU ASSOCIATING THEM WITH NIGHTMARES?
No, I never see those in nightmares. I just feel something (presence).
IS IT POSSIBLE THERE HAS BEEN AN EFFORT TO MANIPULATE YOUR MIND SO YOU WON’T REMEMBER?
I know what they look like. Their face has all black eyes – very much like the slanted, almond shape of cat eyes. I don’t know if they had a nose. I don’t remember if they had a mouth at all, but maybe a slight mouth. No ears or pointed ears that I could see or anything like that. No hair. No helmets. No (visible) life support. Very muscular in the chest. Couldn’t notice hands, really, OK? I don’t recall. And the legs just seemed to go down. I don’t remember feet. No markings – just clothing.
LIKE A LEOTARD?
Yes, it sounds stupid, but that’s what it was like.
AND A BLACK BELT?
A black thing around the waist, dividing, like a belt, I guess.
AND THERE WAS A ROD?
It was like a rod or stick – what it was, I don’t know.
SO THOSE THREE (OR FOUR?) ENTITIES ARE HOVERING IN THE AIR ABOVE YOU?
No! They were three feet off the ground away from me quite a distance. They came out (of misty light) and separated. That’s when we knew what we were looking at.
THE EYES – DID YOU HAVE THE SENSE OF LOOKING AT SOMETHING THAT WAS AN ARTIRICIAL COVER AS OPPOSED TO BIOLOGICAL? No. That was a real eye. WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
Because I just know it was a real eye – I don’t know why, but that was their eye.
SOLID BLACK?
At one point, it looked like they blinked even. That’s when we could see them very clearly. They got clearer to see as time went on. But they were still in something. I don’t think you could have gone up and grabbed them.
Col. Gordon Williams Arrived
Col. Gordon Williams was not there when the beings first came out. But Col. Williams suddenly arrived and they (Williams and other military) were all talking and these things (non-humans) just stood there – no emotion, nothing. They did not move, but you could see in their faces that you would feel as so insignificant! Their intelligence, you could feel that. You could feel intelligence! And I felt like there was nothing to be afraid of them at all
THAT THERE WAS NOTHING TO BE AFRAID OF?
Right. Not that a telepathic voice said that in my head, but I did not feel too much fear. After Col. Williams came, there was some kind of a meeting. He was talking to people. He looked very shaken. It wasn’t like, ‘Oh, here’s another UFO.’ He had something in his hand – I don’t know what it was – and Col. Williams walked at a safe distance very cautiously. These alien things moved away from the ship and went a bit further, got to Col. Williams and kind of tilted their heads a little bit. That was the first movement. And the aliens just kind of looked, you know? There was no hand sign language – I’ve heard that bunk about hand sign language. That’s garbage!
UNDER HYPNOSIS WITH FRED MAX, HE ASKED: ‘Are you talking to each other?
YOU ANSWERED, ‘Laughing, nervous. Who are you talking to? Steve LaPlume.’
WARREN: I don’t think it was LaPlume.
BEN JAMISON: Is it possible that under hypnosis you were trying to mask the identity of one of the people?
WARREN: I think I had a lot of control when I was doing that (Fred Max) hypnosis. I was trying to protect. That was early on.
COULD THE STEVE YOU MENTIONED IN THE FRED MAX HYPNOSIS BE THE NEW YORK GUY YOU DON’T WANT TO NAME? WARREN: There was a guy named Steve there – his name was Longero – and again, that’s who I’m talking about. But I was not under in that Fred Max hypnosis. I have the tape.
CONTINUING WITH THE FRED MAX HYPNOSIS:
‘Things moved really fast. What’s the craft doing? Just sitting there. Then these guys (aliens) come out. There might have been a doorway on the other side. I don’t know. They were just there. There is a light, a green light.’ WARREN: That was early on.
HOWE CONTINUING WITH FRED MAX HYPNOSIS TRANSCRIPT:
‘What’s being said to Col. Williams? I’m too far away. Who is trying to address Col. Williams? These things (non-humans). Was the Col. looking at them? Yes. How so? He was looking down at them. The beings are looking down on him? No, Col. Williams is looking down on the aliens. They are small. Have they landed on the ground? They are at that level. There is one right near us. Is he conversing with them? Yes. Does Col. Williams look comfortable? Very. Has Col. Williams seen the aliens before? I don’t know. He just doesn’t seem worried.’ WARREN: At the beginning, Col. Williams looked worried, but he seemed to get comfortable with the situation, or at least calm with it anyway.
IN THE HYPNOSIS SESSION, YOU DESCRIBED THE BEINGS AS LOOKING ‘LIKE A TOY WITH LARGE, BLACK EYES.’ AND YOU SAID THE NEAREST BEING WAS IN A BLACK, TIGHT GARMENT.
I don’t know about that. Who gave you that transcript? I have the tape.
I TYPED THIS TRANSCRIPT FROM A TAPE OF THE FRED MAX HYPNOSIS.
You have a tape, too?
YES, I TYPED THIS FROM THE HYPNOSIS SESSION. With Fred Max? YES. I TYPED THIS MYSELF.
Then I don’t remember or know why I said some of the things like that. I don’t know.
YOU SAID IN THAT HYPNOSIS,
‘The beings were three feet above us. How far from you? Three feet above us. Three feet above you? How are the beings different? Can’t tell – it’s a black suit. The other one is silver. Is the being near you dressed differently than the others? Yes. Anything on the shoulders? No – only a black stick like a night stick (police). With this group of people you are seeing, are you seeing a hierarchy? Is one of the beings clearly the leader, like Col. Williams is? Probably the one in the middle. Why do you say that? The rest seem to be watching the one (in the middle) and Col. Williams talks to him.’
NOW, IN TERMS OF THE TALKING, THE HYPNOSIS SESSION SAYS, ‘
There is movement of the hands. What kind? Like Italians. All three of them? Col. Williams. Col. Williams is talking like Italian? Right. What about the three beings - are they talking like Italians? They seem very slow, like puppets. What would differentiate them from puppets? There are no strings attached. Could they be robots? No. Why? Just the way they look – their faces.’
IN THE HYPNOSIS, YOU TALK ABOUT,
‘There is a whitish light all around the aliens. Are all the people calm and comfortable? There are some people running, I think, towards us from the woods. How far is Col. Williams from you? Two yards.’”
“YOU’RE SEEING THREE ENTITIES (IN SPHERE A LITTLE ABOVE GROUND OUTSIDE TRIANGLE-SHAPED CRAFT). AND YOU CAN SEE THEN-COLONEL GORDON WILLIAMS TO YOUR RIGHT. WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER?
He walked toward these things (in air). Col. Williams did look down because they were below his head level. They were not touching the ground though at this point. They stared. That basically was the gist. They stared. Then at one point, there was a very loud noise. That might be where hand movements come in. There was a very loud noise in the woods almost like a tree fall, like the crash of a tree. It might not have been, but it’s what it sounded like. The three things in the sphere backed away like – Swoosh! Back real quick to the underside of the vehicle, very close to the object. Their hands and arms were up almost defensively. Then they mellowed out and went back in the direction of Col. Williams and they continued with Williams looking down at them. He looked very calm. In them, you couldn’t see any emotion in the face. At that point, we were told to leave. I see people starting to leave in the woods and I see people next to me start to go and then I’m told to go back to the trucks. As I’m leaving, the things are still in position (in the air) with Col. Williams with his people around. Off we went and get back to the trucks, go back to the base. The sun had not come up yet. I don’t know what time it was. We at there quite awhile and drank coffee. No one said a word. Finally about 6 AM, the morning shift came on. They were all coming in and a lot of us were just sitting around doing nothing and somehow people knew what happened, or some extent of it. We were getting ribbed about Little Green Men. Then I took off, went back to my room, but couldn’t go to sleep. I got a phone call to be at the Chief of Security Police Office at about noon. I went to have breakfast. There were a lot of guys that had been involved in the incident that were at the Police Table. We sat down together and I wanted to say something, but other people were looking at me like, ‘Don’t say a word!’ But the base was buzzing about it. We went and had the briefing in Major Zickler’s office. Left that and got back.
THAT MEETING WAS NOT UNDERGROUND THEN?
Underground – what that came from, I’ll get to that point. I get over to a friend of mine named Greg Battram, who was on CNN. We spoke. He was involved in this to a degree, but was not with me. We talked about what happened. He was blown away and this guy was an ex-Marine fighter pilot. We get to a public telephone and I said, ‘I want to call my mother.’ I picked up the phone and reversed the charges. My mother still has the bill from that day. That would tell us the date! Ben Jamison: Your mother says she doesn’t have it. Larry Warren: She doesn’t have it any more? Well, I got on the phone with her. I said, ‘Mom, you’re never going to believe what happened here last night. A UFO did this and that and I’m yakking about it. All of a sudden she wasn’t there! I’m talking and all of a sudden there was nothing on the line. I said, ‘My God!’ I hung up and called the operator and said, ‘I got disconnected. I had a reverse charge call to the United States.’ The operator asked me, ‘Are you calling from the base?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ She said, ‘You were cut off from the base.’ And I know all the base phones are tapped always. So, I got back to my room. Some kid comes running up and said, ‘We got a call from the Communications Squadron on Bentwaters.’ That’s a place that was half underground and half not. It was a nerve center for radar and everything. I get there and walk in where all the security is.
THIS IS AFTER THE BRIEFING BEFORE?
Oh, yeah, this is that afternoon probably about 5 PM. I get in there, meet this captain guy and he takes me into a room and started saying, ‘You’ve given away information over the phone. That’s a breach of such and such regulation. I’m going to have to fine you or take your stripes.’ There was a $300 fine or my two stripes and I said, ‘Let’s go with the fine. Deduct it from my paycheck.’ At first I denied it. I said I never did that (phone). But this guy played a tape back! He had a reel-to-reel tape right there and here I am yakking on the phone! You could even hear the click when my mother heard, which I never heard on the phone I was on. So, they had me pegged right away. I said, ‘OK,’ and I signed up for the money deducted. I forget what they took. But I left the U. S. Air Force owing them $95.00 of that fine. They sent me a thing saying they would take me to a collection agency in 1981 if I didn’t pay it and I said, ‘Screw you! What are you going to do? Tell people I told about a UFO landing on the base and you didn’t get my money!’ They never took me to a collection agency, but I still have the letter from the government and all this from the Air Force. After that, we had already been debriefed, I worked on flight another month. That’s when I started doing a lot of administration stuff. No one talked at all. (about the incident). I heard a lot of stories about someone taking photographs and they took his film. There were a lot of rumors, but I stayed away from it. But I was in an office asking questions. This is where it got interesting. I had a guy in my office. He came in to replace a guy that was going stateside. This new guy was named Mark Reese. He was a staff sergeant. The funny thing about this Mark Reese is that he had a Z-280, a real nice car. The average staff sergeant couldn’t afford it. He had just come from Arizona and was assigned to this office (where I was). The guy was bright. I mean sharp as a whip! And he always seemed to be watching me. And I had been asking questions around the base.
Sgt. Adrian Bustinza and RAF Bentwaters Underground Then in March 1981, Adrian Bustinza came to my room and slipped a note under my door and said, ‘Meet me at my room.’ I get over there and he threw his roommate out and we sat down and started talking about this. He told me of a UFO that happened to him and his family at one time back in the 1970s. Then he started to talk about what we saw in Rendlesham Forest. He was telling me things that I did not recall – that something tall was out there, something was seen that was very tall. It was bizarre. Then he said, ‘There’s something you don’t know. There’s an underground facility under this base, under Bentwaters, and he went into this whole big deal about how he was – the next day – he was picked up in a car and passed out and all that. That was the day I called my mother. Sgt. Adrian Bustinza and several other people were taken out to the Bentwaters base photo lab and went down an elevator to an underground facility. He barely recalls, but he came out at the same place. They were shown high tech underground somewhere. He heard jets, so he knew it was near the flight line. He sat in a room and something talked to him from behind a screen. He told me, ‘Look, you’re getting out. Tell this and when I get out, we’ll go to the newspapers.’ That’s at least what we thought then. I said, ‘Well, I’ll do it as my first hand, but you’ve got to back me up as soon as it comes out and tell what happened in detail.’ He said, ‘Fine.’ He seemed really into it and interested in getting the story out. He said they were messing with him. Some bad things happened to Adrian. So, Adrian told me this whole underground thing. And I really bought it. I don’t know why, but with the circumstances of what happened and what was going on in the meantime, being monitored, being watched, it made you feel sick! I had no reason to disbelieve that this guy was honest. He was definitely an honest guy. He went into details and said there was an object own there (underground). He saw it from a catwalk. So, I believed him 100%.
Military Retaliation Against Larry Warren? Later I was back in the office and one day they told me to take a shovel and a wheelbarrow and start digging dirt near this building. I said, ‘Wait a minute! You’ve gone too far now – you’re pushing me! You’ve taken me off duty, you’ve done this and that.’ Then a friend of mine, Steve La Plume said, ‘Larry, listen, I went to Holland for a weekend in Amsterdam. I came back and as soon as you go there, you’re under suspicion of carrying drugs, no matter who you are because it’s very drug-oriented in Holland. Steve said, ‘OSI is putting a file together on you.’ I said, ‘Screw this! I know what they are doing.’ I called the guy from OSI and asked to talk to him. He said, ‘OK, come on in.’ I get out to the OSI office, which was near Major Zickler’s office. I go in the back and there’s this black guy who was with OSI. I said, ‘Listen, I want to talk to you people. I hear you are doing something with some information about me and I would like to talk with you about it.’ He said, ‘OK, come on in.’ The guy read me my rights! And then said, ‘Sit down.’ I sit down and this guy opens a file cabinet and pulled out a file and started to reading to me. He said, ‘September 15, 1980, you were in so and so’s room smoking hash and on September 20th, you sold hash or marijuana to someone. On October something on Bentwaters you did this and that.’ He had like three incidents.
I said, ‘Oh, but if you had ever checked with me a little further you would find that during September and October 1980, I was still in the Security Police Academy in San Antonio, Texas, and I wasn’t even on this base. I wasn’t even assigned to this base then!’ The guy shut the file and said, ‘Get the hell out of here!’ And put the file away. That’s when I called my mother and said, ‘I want out of here! I’m sick of this! They are playing games here and trying to get me arrested for drugs. I know they can plant them in my room.’ Then some rumors started going around that I was an informant for OSI! People who had been my friends were staying away. I don’t know what happened to me in that goddamn field in Rendlesham, but I saw something and remember it in 40 ways. But afterwards, those bastards almost ruined me. Then I went to the base lawyer, a colonel, and said, ‘I want to get the hell out of the Air Force. They are doing this and this to me because I was involved with the UFO and I’m sick of it.’ And he says, ‘Well, let’s check some things out. Are you working in the field?’ I said, ‘I’m working in the police, but I’m not doing what I was trained to do under contract.’ He said, ‘Well, that constitutes a breech of contract and we can look into that.’ I get back to my office and that Reese guy is there. He sits down and I said, ‘Mark, you weren’t here on base at the time, but did you ever hear about the UFO incident?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ I said, ‘Do you know there is an underground base beneath Bentwaters?’ He said, ‘Why push it? What can you do about it?’ He was so calm and collected! I said, ‘Wait a minute! So, you know about this?’ He shrugged his shoulders and walked away. He was the staff sergeant in security police assigned to my office and this Mark Reese was too sharp to be a staff sergeant. And I had not done anything wrong, even though someone tried to get me on phony charges. They offered me airfield maintenance, which is picking up paper from the runway and shooting rabbits. I could see myself being a cook for the next five years. The choices they gave me no one would want, so I wanted out! The lawyer said, ‘You’ve got a breech of contract and we’ll submit it to Col. Williams.’ And I have his letter that says, ‘I have reviewed Mr. Warren’s case and feel it is in the best interests of himself and the United States Air Force that he be honorably discharged as of May 15, 1981.’ I have that at home with his signature.
WITH GORDON WILLIAMS’S SIGNATURE.
That’s right. So, I got out – and that was stupid also! My mother kept saying, ‘Don’t get out! There are no jobs back here. What are you going to do?’ It was a small town in upstate New York. I told her, ‘I don’t care. I’m sick of this!’ But it probably was stupid to do that, get out. If I had been quiet and let it all blow over like most people did, but I was pushing this from the day it happened, I was talking. After I got out, I told my mother the whole thing with a neighbor next door there, too. My mother said, ‘I didn’t know whether to believe you or not, but ...” After awhile, I decided to go back into the Air Force and they assigned me to washing dishes. Oh, my God! It was terrible!’ When I went to the same recruiter I used before, he recognized me. I explained I wanted to go back in and he said, ‘No problem. You’ve got a good record. But you’ve got a funny re-enlistment code. I never saw anything like that before.’ But we tried processing and I went down to Albany and went through the whole thing again, passed physicals. They told me, ‘We’ve got to put you back in security police.’ I was so desperate to get out of my hometown I said, ‘OK, I’ll do it again as long as I go somewhere else (not Bentwaters).’ They said, ‘Fine, all was good.’
But a couple of days later the recruiter called and said, ‘Larry, I’ve got bad news. They denied you re-enlistment the other day.’ I said, ‘Wait a minute, I got an honorable discharge. I have re-enlistment option open to me.’ All of a sudden, I run into a lot of problems with the process that just stops. Even on the recruiter computer, it would come up with my name, rank, address, social security number and the words, ‘Do not process.’ Then I got in touch with Congressman Soloman for help, but that didn’t work either. So I went to the U. S. Army and that recruiter said there was something wrong with your records. I finally said I saw a UFO with a lot of people and thought that was the problem. But after a month of trying with the Army, they were getting ‘Do not process’ also. And no one could explain to me why. I went to McGuire AFB for a review of my discharge papers that say ‘Honorable Discharge.’ And then there was my DD-214, which is your service record with any awards or medals or ribbons you got. I had five of them in one year of service! I worked security when the hostages came back from Iran and Germany. But on my DD-214 there was a code that meant ‘No re-entry.’ [ Editor's Note: Larry Warren’s politically-connected father tried to get his son back into the Air Force without success. Later they learned that Larry’s USAF records in 1983 had been classified and sent first to the Pentagon and then on to the National Security Agency in 1983. ] I called the NSA and they told me they had no record of my Air Force military service!” “I went to live with my father in Connecticut and told him I wanted to get back in the service. He said, ‘No problem. What about the National Guard?’ So, we went up to Bradley Airport. His friend is a general, the commander of the Connecticut National Guard. They play golf together because both were in the insurance business, too. We get up to the general’s office. I don’t tell him about UFOs or what happened (in Bentwaters). I just said I encountered a lot of red tape (trying to re-enlist). The general said, ‘Oh, no problem. We can override this.’ My father said, ‘Good, good!’ And we go back to the car. Months go by and my father talked to the general and he said, ‘Well, I’m working on it. It’s not going very smoothly.’ Finally, my father saw the general at a lunch and the guy ignored my father! My father is a professional in the elite of Connecticut (business people), and the general is now ignoring him. My father came back to me and said, ‘Larry, I don’t know what is going on. He wouldn’t talk to me, tell me or anything. He just said, ‘I’m sorry.’ So I said, ‘Dad, I’ve got to tell you what happened to me.’ And I sat down and that’s when I told my father. I didn’t know how he would respond to it. But he said, ‘Larry, with all I’ve seen going on with you with the red tape and all, I believe you.’
WHAT’S CURIOUS IS THAT THE U. S. AIR FORCE WOULD HAVE SO MUCH MORE CONTROL OVER YOU IN THE AIR FORCE THAN OUT OF IT.
But they would then have a person who could give information out at any time to people in the military and it would be like a disease that would spread. Yet, I know security at military bases and I know certain things about RAF Bentwaters that I don’t say to this day because it’s about national security – some very big things about Bentwaters, but it doesn’t concern UFOs. [ Editor’s Note: Presence of nuclear weapons at RAF Bentwaters WSA.] The presence of things at Bentwaters might concern the UFOs – why it’s there. I think then the USAF felt better that I was out. A lot of people kept begging me not to go back in. They said, ‘You go in, they can do whatever they want with you. Stay out!’
Now, I’ve spoken to people in government and at the Pentagon. Everyone of them is aware of who I am. We had my military records drawn up from this place in St. Louis, Missouri, where they keep all the military records – even from my father’s days in the service. They got them. My records are classified! They were in the Pentagon and then moved to the National Security Agency (NSA) in 1983. That’s where they are. I was supposed to have a big board hearing – this is all documented and things that people don’t know and why I laugh when people say I’m full of shit. We organized the meeting at the Pentagon and I was supposed to have a hearing with the whole board of the Surgeon General and everybody because of my situation. There were Congressmen – I had three of them, Toby Moffett, Lowell Weicker and the Gov. of Connecticut O’Neill sent a letter and finally I got some action. I had a hearing. This Pentagon board meeting was called with senators invited as well. They could not get my military records because this is when I found out they had been moved from St. Louis to the Pentagon for review and now they were permanently at the NSA. I got a letter stating that. And I didn’t even know what the NSA was then, but I found out it was the National Security Agency (in Ft. Meade, Maryland). I called the NSA. They said, ‘Mr. Warren, we have no record of your military service.’ I called back to St. Louis and there was a time when the U. S. Air Force was denying I had ever served! I called the FBI and have people outside of the UFO community that have worked with me on this including senators that know exactly what is going on and know what has happened to me because they have seen proof and evidence of it. They said, ‘There is so much security on you, you’re so highly classified with your records and all, they will do anything to keep you out (of re-enlisting in the USAF). They said, ‘But they can ruin your professional life, too.’ Now, I worked for a television network here in Connecticut during an internship when I was in school finishing up. I’ve done commercials. I’ve copy written for United Airlines. I’ve been somewhat successful. Channel 10 here in Connecticut, I’ve done commercials, and I’ve taught at the Connecticut School of Broadcasting courses in copywriting twice a month. Doing alright for 25-years-old. And I keep the RAF Bentwaters incident away from my professional life. Some people saw the CNN special (reported by Chuck De Caro) and I was told to stop doing this (participating in interviews). BY WHOM? By my boss at the TV station. He said he didn’t want controversy. Word came down from the NBC network not to do any story on Bentwaters. And I don’t know if I remember the incident exactly – or the way I want to remember at times. I’d have to sit down with a psychologist who believes in UFOs to sort it out. I probably need one in certain aspects. I’ve grown up with this essentially! I called down to Randolph AFB, Texas, and I talked to a captain. I was pursuing my records. He said I was involved in something that happened at RAF Bentwaters in 1980. ‘I know what you are talking about.’ He said that to me just like that. He goes, ‘It would not surprise me if you have some problems.’ I told him I had been having problems for two years. He said, ‘I’ll have someone call you back.’ And I got a call back from a Tech Sergeant Green and he sounded black. He said, ‘Mr. Warren, I’ve been speaking to captain so-and-so and I’m to relay this to you that there is the possibility you might be able to re-enlist in the military if you stop talking about what you are talking about. I have no idea what this means; maybe you do?’ I said, ‘Yes, I sure do!’ And he said, ‘Thank you very much. If you have any more problems, please contact us, but that’s a word of advice I was told to tell you.’
JUMPING BACK TO SECURITY AT BENTWATERS WHEN THEY HAD YOU SIGN ALL THE PAPERS, DID THEY EXPLAIN TO YOU THAT YOU WERE SIGNING SECURITY OATHS IN WHICH YOU WOULD BE FOUND GUILTY IF YOU VIOLATED THEM?
They said you could go to jail even if you are a civilian and you talk. They said you could be fined and that ‘bullets are cheap!’ So, I don’t know if they would shoot, you know? But the thing is I don’t know – this is a goddamn weird subject! I get emotional about this because it happened to me. Something happened to me! I remember it the best way I can. I’m angry about it!
WHY WEREN’T YOU INTIMIDATED BY SECURITY AND GOVERNMENT WHILE EVERYONE ELSE IS?
Because it’s truth and if I was not telling the truth, then I would not have gone through the problems that I went through. They would not be able to screw around with me if I was just a bullshitter out here, or a clown. I don’t think you would be here talking to me because I would have been found out a long time ago if there was not meat to what I was saying.
Underground Base At RAF Bentwaters: UFO Film and Non-Human Being? Larry Warren agreed to tell Sgt. Adrian Bustinza's experience to protect Bustinza.
ABOUT THE UNDERGROUND BASE AT RAF BENTWATERS ...
That was Bustinza, but I was trying to tell it (his firsthand) from me secondhand. The plan was that Adrian would tell his story when he came public, but you know what Bustinza said: ‘Oh, I don’t want to go into that.’ He said that to Larry Fawcett – ‘I don’t want to talk about it.’
HERE’S THE STORY I HAVE I WANT TO GO OVER WITH YOU: TWO MEN IN BLACK LOOKING LIKE CADAVERS CAME IN TWO BLACK LIMOUSINES. THEY CAME FOR ADRIAN BUSTINZA AFTER HE WOKE UP FROM A BLACKOUT AT THE CRAFT SCENE IN RENDLESHAM FOREST. DID BUSTINZA REMEMBER BLANKING OUT?
No. Bustinza never blacked out.
SO, THIS IS A COMBINATION OF THE TWO OF YOU?
A combination – I combined it. I think the motive here is very honorable. It’s just the way that people who don’t know the whole ramifications, the whole story – and that’s other people’s fault, not mine.
THAT BUSTINZA WAS IN THE UNDERGROUND BASE UNDER BENTWATERS FOR THREE DAYS AND THERE WERE SIX MEN MISSING FROM BENTWATERS DURING THOSE THREE DAYS AND THAT WAS CONFIRMED BY ANOTHER PERSON.
There were people who said I was missing, too, and still insist on it. They said, ‘You were gone, man!’ And I said, ‘I was not gone!’ People said I was in the United States on leave. But I remember that I called my mother (from Bentwaters).
YOU COULD HAVE HAD A TRUE MISSING TIME EXPERIENCE.
It’s a weird time. I can’t really get a fix on it. I can remember other times in the service real well, but I can’t remember that. Ben Jamison: You were puzzled about your sequence of duties. You were supposed to rotate from flight to flight to flight and then you would get off.
LW: Well, you would work six days on and three days off. And on New Year’s Eve 1980, I was off duty and got stone drunk on champagne. I had three bottles hidden around the base and drank one of them. But I was on duty during the incident. Ben Jamison: The day after Christmas you went to London?
LW: No, on New Year’s, we went to London on New Year’s Day (January 1, 1981) and stayed down there. On December 6, 1980, was the last time I was in London, I think, before January 1, 1981. Ben Jamison: The day after Christmas you said you wrote to your mother, but never sent the letter. LW: I wrote on December 26 or 27. I had it dated. I wrote to my mother and said it was boring over there and obviously nothing had happened yet. I have that letter somewhere. I’ll have to dig it up. I could be wrong about the date; maybe it was December 27. Ben Jamison: Weren’t you on duty that night you wrote the letter? LW: I went on duty late at night. I remember writing the letter.
Howe: LET’S CONTINUE WITH THIS STORY THAT BUSTINZA WAS DRIVEN IN SILENCE AS IF IN A DREAM. HE BLACKS OUT AGAIN AND WAKES UP INSIDE AN UNDERGROUND, HUGE COMPLEX. LW: Yeah. HE SEES A UFO LIKE THE ONE IN THE FOREST DOWN BELOW HIM. HE IS STANDING ON SOME SORT OF A CATWALK. LW: Right. HE SEES WHOLE BANKS OF COMPUTERS. HE IS TAKEN TO AN AUDITORIUM WITH ABOUT 30 TO 40 OTHER PEOPLE THAT HE KNOWS FROM BENTWATERS. THERE ARE ALSO HIGH-RANKING OFFICERS PRESENT. THERE IS A (MOVIE) SCREEN. A GENERAL COMES OUT AND SPEAKS. LARRY, DO YOU KNOW WHO THE GENERAL WAS?
No. I just tried to repeat it as close to how Bustinza told me. It might be different in some aspects.
THE GENERAL REFERS TO ANY QUESTIONS THE PEOPLE IN THE AUDITORIUM MIGHT HAVE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN RENDLESHAM FOREST AND WHY IT WAS NECESSARY FOR SECRECY. A FILM WAS SHOWN. YOU SAY, LARRY, THAT IT WAS SILENT – NO SOUND, RIGHT?
Larry Warren Says He Saw UFO Film in AFOSI Office, RF Bentwaters LW: The film I saw, I watched in Major Malcolm Zickler’s office (head of AFOSI at RAF Bentwaters). I think I was tying the film in because Bustinza said he saw the UFO film underground.
SO YOU DID SEE A FILM, TOO? Oh, yeah. OK, YOU CAN TELL ME IF THE FILM I’M NOW DESCRIBING AS BUSTINZA’S STORY MATCHES WHAT YOU SAW.
WWII Fighter Squadron Filmed As Fleet of Silver UFOs Passes By
ONE SCENE WAS WWII BOMBERS FLYING WITH A UFO SILVER DISC FLYING ALONG OUTSIDE THE WINDOW.
LW: No. That was in there. I know what you are trying to say, but what it was – it was a squadron of fighters – not bombers – flying along in formation and it was like it was filmed from another plane behind that. And you could see a fleet, or bunch of silver things flying past it. Ben Jamison: The Navy had single-engine bombers, so that’s not inconsistent. LW: It was over the ocean. And that was a quick one and black and white.
SQUADRON OF FIGHTERS FLYING IN FORMATION WITH A FLEET OF UFOS FLYING IN FORMATION IN THE FOREGROUND OR BACKGROUND?
Well, here were the bombers out this way, the planes, and here was obviously a camera on another plane, I guess, and these (UFO) things went past and went out (of frame). There were clouds and everything – that was one part.
FLYBY – AS IF IT WERE SET UP FOR THE OTHER PLANE TO FILM?
No, it looked like the (camera) plane was just photographing bombers flying and these (UFO) things went by real fast. None of the films looked staged or expected.
Green, Large Craft Rose Up from Vietnam Woods Another film showed Special Forces at a fire base in Vietnam definitely and a couple of guys were smoking cigarettes. They had shirts off and one guy had a beret – so they were Green Beret, a Special Forces group. They turned around towards woods – not really jungle – a thicket of trees – and this big thing rose out. It was dark, drab color. You could see trees, or pieces of branches, falling off down into the jungle and the thing went up and the guys were looking at it.
WAS THAT IN COLOR?
Yep.
LIKE A DARK GREY COLOR (THE MACHINE)?
Dark green kind of color, during the daytime.
WHAT WOULD BE THE YEAR FOR THE SQUADRON OF FIGHTERS (B&W FILM)?
1940s, WWII era. No dates were given, but you can guess somewhat.
IN MY NOTES, I HAVE THAT THE CRAFT THAT ROSE FROM THE JUNGLE IN VIETNAM WAS LIKE THE BENTWATERS CRAFT?
No. It had the same idea with delta shape, but it was like – it’s hard to describe. It was on the same principal, but much larger. Very big! Smooth and just a green thing rising up.
SO NO BOXES AND PIPES LIKE WHAT YOU SAW AT BENTWATERS?
No, it was smooth. It had like delta-type things.
YOU MEAN?
Looked kind of like this – maybe I can draw it. This thing just rose straight up in broad daylight. It was very clear, very good film, and just went out of sight very slowly. As real as real can be! And the military men are all looking like surprised.
WHY WOULD ANYONE HAVE BEEN FILMING THAT SCENE IN VIETNAM?
I’ve seen tons of Vietnam film. So, someone had a camera because a lot of it looked like the film was focused on the guys and then the camera just panned. It was out of focus and then it caught this thing rising. People had 8 mm or 16 mm film.
Korean War Dogfight Between Chinese MIG and Ball of Light
ANOTHER FILM CLIP WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IN THE KOREAN WAR AND A MIG IS SHOT DOWN BY A UFO?
[In UFO film shown underground at Bentwaters] it was the Korean War and what happens is that a MIG – there is a dogfight definitely going on. Some kind of bright ball of light passes the MIG and the MIG comes down in smoke and everything. And the camera on the aircraft was following it - it seemed lower than the MIG - there were mountains and definitely Korea – the plane filming flew down towards the wreckage of the MIG and the film just stops right there. It’s very quick. A lot of this is quick.
THE BRIGHT BALL OF LIGHT WAS WHICH COLOR?
I don’t know. It was B & W film.
WHEN THE LIGHT PASSES THE BIG, THE MIG EXPLODES.
Yes, it almost looked like a rocket was shot at the MIG. That’s what you would think if you saw it on TV – that a missile was shot out and kept going. The basic theme of the film they showed was UFOs and so this had to be a UFO that hit the MIG.
COULD YOU TELL WHAT YEAR IT WAS?
No, except it was the Korean War era. [The war began on 25 June 1950 and an armisticewas signed on 27 July 1953.] It was a Chinese MIG.
Three Silver Discs Filmed On Moon During Apollo 11 Buzz Aldrin, 2005: “There was something out there that was close enough to be observed and what could it be? Mike (Collins) decided he thought he could see it in the telescope and he was able to do that and when it was in one position, that had a series of ellipses, but when you made it real sharp it was sort of L-shaped. That didn't tell us very much.”
[Editor's Note: Wikipedia - NASA's Apollo 11 mission landed the first humans to walk on the Moon on July 20, 1969, crewed by Commander Neil Alden Armstrong, Lunar Module Pilot Edwin Eugene ‘Buzz’Aldrin, Jr. and Command Module Pilot Michael Collins, who orbited in the Command Module. In September 2005, the Science Channel broadcast a documentary entitled, First On the Moon: The Untold Story.
About 14 minutes and 30 seconds into the program, former NASA astronaut Buzz Aldin described a UFO encounter while Apollo 11 was traveling to the moon. UFO Evidence transcribed segment.
“Narrator: But three days and 200,000 miles into the flight, Mission Control did miss the significance of a cryptic message from Apollo 11.
Apollo 11: Do you have any idea where the S-IVB is with respect to us? Mission Control: Stand-by
Narrator: The Crew required information on the current position of the S-IVB, the final stage of the rocket which had been jettisoned away two days earlier. This short message hid an extraordinary turn of events: Apollo 11 wasn't alone in space.
Buzz Aldrin: There was something out there that was close enough to be observed and what could it be? Narrator: Traveling along side of Apollo 11 was a mysterious object like this one (a ringed object at close range is shown), filmed on a later mission. If it wasn't part of their own rocket, it could only be one thing: a UFO.
Aldrin: Mike (Collins) decided he thought he could see it in the telescope and he was able to do that and when it was in one position, that had a series of ellipses, but when you made it real sharp it was sort of L shaped. That didn't tell us very much. Dr. David Baker (Apollo 11 Senior Scientist): NASA knew very little about the object reported by the Apollo 11 crew. It was obviously an unidentified flying object (UFO), but such objects were not uncommon and the history of even earth orbit space flights going back over the previous years indicated that several crews saw objects.
Narrator: Despite having a clear view of the UFO, the crew was wary of reporting it to Mission Control.
Aldrin: Now, obviously, the three of us were not going to blurt out, ‘Hey Houston we got something moving along side of us and we don't know what it is, you know, can you tell us what it is?’ We weren't about to do that, cause we know that those transmissions would be heard by all sorts of people and who knows what somebody would have demanded that we turn back because of Aliens or whatever the reason is, so we didn't do that, but we did decide we'd just cautiously ask Houston where, how far away was the S-IVB?
Narrator: Unaware of the drama unfolding in space, Mission Control radioed the position back to Apollo 11.
Mission Control: Apollo 11, Houston. The S-IVB is about 6,000 nautical miles from you now, over.
Aldrin: And a few moments later, why they came back and said something like it was 6,000 miles away because of the maneuver, so we really didn't think we were looking at something that far away, so we decided that after a while of watching it, it was time to go to sleep and not to talk about it anymore until we came back and (went through) debriefing.
Narrator: To this day, whatever it was that the crew saw has never been positively identified or officially acknowledged.
Dr. David Baker: There were a lot of people within the program who went off later and became convinced that UFOs existed and that lead to some concern on NASA's part where they got the agreement of the crew never to publicly talk about these things for fear of ridicule.” ]
Howe: THEN FILM ON THE MOON. A LAND ROVER TRAVELING ON THE DUSTY MOON AND THREE UFOS RISE UP OVER HILLY AREA BEYOND.
LW: They were ON the hill.
THEY WERE NOT RISING?
No, they were on the hill. You see the camera comes up and these three things are on it – not a hill, but like a cliff almost and they are there.
THEY WERE SILVER AND SMOOTH?
Just bright, like light was reflecting off of them. They were not lit up.
SILVER DISCS.
Yes, just sitting there.
ON A CLIFF AND AS THE LUNAR BUGGY MOVED, THE THREE DISCS COME INTO SIGHT ON THE CAMERA.
Yeah. The camera, whatever this camera was, was on that lunar vehicle and was around 1973, in that era.”
“THAT’S FOUR FILM SCENES YOU JUST DESCRIBED WAS THERE ANYTHING ELSE?
The film showed buildings, or like a big, rectangular shoe box, on the moon. That’s all it showed from that same era of the space car on the moon. It showed like the same color of the moon’s surface, but had a ‘shoe box-like’ structure to it. Very quick.
LIKE ADOBE?
No, like a shoe box. There were no windows in it or anything. Square, like a clump of - it looked like the same ground, but a square box on it. And some kind of very symmetrical carvings in the landscape. It really did! That was it, very quick, but it was like a shoe box. No windows. I don’t know what it was, but it was big and built.
[ Editor's Note: Wikipedia - “Clementine (officially called the Deep Space Program Science Experiment (DSPSE) was a joint space project between the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization (BMDO, previously the Strategic Defense Initiative Organization (SDIO) and NASA. Launched on January 25, 1994, the objective of the mission was to test sensors and spacecraft components under extended exposure to the space environment and to make scientific observations of the Moon and the near- Earth asteroid 1620 Geographos. Observations made included imaging at various wavelengths in the visible as well as in ultraviolet and infrared, laser ranging altimetry, gravimetry, and charged particle measurements. These observations were for the purposes of obtaining multi-spectral imaging of the entire lunar surface, assessing the surface mineralogy of the Moon, obtaining altimetry from 60N to 60S latitude, and obtaining gravity data for the near side. There were also plans to image and determine the size, shape, rotational characteristics, surface properties, and cratering statistics of Geographos, but by June 1994, it was announced that the Clementine ‘signal was too weak to receive’ and the mission unexpectedly ended” - at least in public.]
ANY OTHER FILM SCENES?
A lot of gun camera film – jets following something.
Ben Jamison: Was there anything having to do with the space program, but not on the moon?
Larry Warren: Oh, yeah! It showed the astronauts, the sky walks, the Sky Lab, a lot of film, lights coming by it and objects below it. It showed a space walk maybe from that same era with a guy outside of the ship and you could see something go right – like something in the darkness - go right over and the guy was trying to check it out or something. It was all there. Just different clips, very quick and very brief.
[ Editor's Note: Wikipedia - “ During Sky Lab launch on May 14, 1973, some 63 seconds into flight, the micrometeor shield on the Orbital Workshop (OWS) experienced a failure that caused it to be caught up in the supersonic air flow during ascent. This ripped the shield from the OWS and damaged the tie downs that secured one of the solar array systems. Complete loss of one of the solar arrays happened at 593 seconds when the exhaust plume from the S-II's separation rockets impacted the partially deployed solar array system. Without the micrometeoroid shield that was to protect against solar heating as well, temperatures inside the OWS rose to 126 degrees fahrenheit. The gold “parasol” clearly visible in the photo, was designed to replace the missing micrometeoroid shield, protecting the workshop against solar heating. The replacement solar shield was deployed by the Skylab I crew. This enabled the Skylab Orbital Workshop to fulfill all its mission objects serving as home to additional crews before being deorbited in 1978 in a deliberate crash of Sky Lab back to Earth.”]
WERE THE CRAFT ALWAYS THE SAME?
No, everything looked different. Sometimes you could not see a craft, just saw a streak of something, a light.
HOW LONG WAS THIS FILM OF THE CLIPS?
Now that’s – under an hour, 45 minutes maybe? Half-hour to 45 minutes to an hour, in that area.
YOU SAW THE SAME 45-MINUTE CLIP THAT BUSTINZA SAW?
Yep! He told me parts of it that we discussed.
IT WAS SILENT?
Right, no narration, no titles, no nothing.
THE TALL BLOND AND THE BLACK HAIRED GUY – HOW DID THEY SET UP WHAT THE FILM YOU WERE GOING TO SEE?
There was a movie projector in the office. They locked all the doors. The windows, the shades were all down. They had a screen set up, a makeshift little screen. They showed it. They had it in an ironclad – you know those protected things with locks you would not believe. DIA and all these codes on the thing and a lock, a coded system, that you punch in. That was the case this thing (movie film) was in! I never saw them take it or leave it. They left the room and the film was still there. It was like business as usual to them.
YES, BUT HAD YOU SIGNED ALL THE RELEASES BY THEN?
That was just after the end (signing non-disclosure releases) they said, ‘Bullets are cheap.’ And, ‘we’re going to show you a little film.’ This was the only time they hinted. ‘We want – you might understand what has happened here a little better.’ Now, I understood it NO better. I was saying, ‘Oh, here are movies of UFOs. Now, what are they doing?’ We saw them (film) and people have said maybe they were faked and maybe it was disinformation for you. But the films I saw – I know special effects to a degree – and there is no way. They were just real films. You know, the average person, you just sit there and watch them because they are on film.
BUT THEY DID NOT TRY TO EXPLAIN TO YOU ANYTHING?
No.
JUST TOLD YOU THEY WERE GOING TO SHOW YOU SOMETHING THAT WILL SHOW WHY...
No, they didn’t say they would show. They said, ‘You’re going to see a film that might help you understand what’s happened here.’ That’s it. No hints. I was pretty silent, but then they started joking about ‘bullets are cheap,’ and I thought that was kind of morbid, you know? Everyone was laughing because they were very keyed up.
AND THAT WAS THE ROOM ...
It was in a simple office on the ground level. They locked the door. And they had jail cells out the hallway there.
IN THAT SCREENING, JOHN BURROUGHS WAS NOT THERE; ADRIAN BUSTINZA WAS THERE FOR PART OF THE TIME, BUT ...
For part of the interview. He was not there for the screening. They took him out.
HE TOLD YOU ABOUT SEEING THE FILM IN THE UNDERGROUND BASE.
He told me in March or April 1981 about his experience. I’m staying away from Bustinza’s experience now because again, I have enough trouble with mine and I’m not going to carry the ball for Adrian. I did for a long time, but he did not do what he said he would do (disclose his true experience).
BUSTINZA IS PROBABLY SCARED.
Well, I called his house and his mother got on the phone and she knew who I was. I never could reach him. He works in the Border Patrol, I think, in Texas. His mother thought I was Larry Fawcett because he had talked a few times and Larry’s kind of persistent. I said, ‘Mrs. Bustinza, I served with Adrian. I was in the service with him. Please ask him if I can talk to him.’ She said, ‘This has caused nothing but problems for my family and I wish Adrian would stay out of this.’
Chuck De Caro, when he interviewed Adrian (for CNN), Chuck asked him outright, ‘Is Larry Warren lying?’ Chuck let Adrian see everything that I’ve been involved with. And Adrian said, ‘No.’ Chuck said Adrian was simply scared. What happened to Adrian after December 1980, I don’t know. Everyone – my friend Greg Battram – I contacted him. You (Ben Jamison) have spoken to Greg, right? Ben Jamison: Yes. Larry Warren: I guess he told you he couldn’t continue. Ben Jamison: I called him the first time and he was a good story telling guy and the second time I called him, it was only five minutes. Now, the thing that people forget is that every single person involved in this, there have been other witnesses. I have heard them on CNN. I have heard people like Ray Boeche (Nebraska investigator) has talked to Adrian and Adrian is not telling the truth and I can tell. I knew Adrian well enough that I knew he didn’t trust Ray. Adrian did not trust who he was speaking to and he was giving disinformation. I have heard disinformation given on the Bentwaters case by the government anyway. I have heard it given by witnesses on CNN like – for one, I always said there was motion picture. Adrian said long before CNN that the film was flown to Germany the very next day. Capt. Mike Verrano comes up on CNN and says, “I did drive Williams (Gordon Williams - Base Commander), to an F-16 on the Bentwaters tarmac the AM of the 30th. He had two canisters of 35mm footage with him...He told me directly that it was actual footage of the UFOs on the ground...” Verrano said he had pictures of the UFO – meaning motion pictures. Where is it going? He said there were 35mm (photos), but that did not come out – so they say. Verrano said all the photographs came out foggy, but they did not because I saw the pictures. I’ve seen pictures (photos) from this (December 1980 Bentwaters)! I won’t go into that, but they did not come out foggy whatsoever. There are pictures and there is motion picture. I’ve never seen the films, but they do exist.
WHY NOT GO INTO THE PHOTOGRAPHS?
Because I have seen some of the stuff they gathered that night. I have seen the sample bottles, I’ve seen one of the pod indentations (in forest soil), the plaster cast, a lot of the stuff is kept.
COL. HALT SAID THEY HAD DONE PLASTER CASTS.
He said they threw it all away. It’s at Wright-Patterson in Foreign Technology right now. Col. Halt has given out so much disinformation.
LET ME CONTINUE ON THIS LIST OF WHO WAS AT THE FILM SCREENING. GEORGE LAWS?
No, George was not there. These were all lower ranking people, sergeant and below.
CAPT. MIKE VERRANO?
No.
STEVE LA PLUME?
No, Steve wasn’t there.
COL. GORDON WILLIAMS?
No. Gordon Williams was not there.
LT. BRUCE ENGLUND?
No, no officers at all, except that Major Malcolm Zickler came in and out sometimes. It was his office.
A GUY NAMED CARPENTER?
Carpenter, good ol’ Carpenter. Yes.
WHAT WAS HIS FIRST NAME?
This is the blond-haired kid we were talking about. I don’t remember his first name.
SOMEBODY NAMED GULIUS? [ Ray Gulyas.] [ Editor’s Note: Former RAF Bentwaters Deputy Base Commander Charles Halt told me in August 2009, “I definitely was not out in the forest with Capt. Mike Verrano [ during the daylight hours of December 26, 1980]. I only knew he was out the next day because several others told me. ...Ray Gulyas (E-4 or E-5, Buck Sgt. or Staff Sgt.) ... somewhere I've seen pictures he took of the ‘landing site’ the morning after [of] the first event.” See: September 15 - 17, 2009 Earthfiles.]
He was the administrative monitor, I think. He did all the testing. He was around that day, but I don’t think he was in the room. He was in the building that day. He’d come in and out. He took care of all the paperwork. He was a Master Sergeant.
MASTER SERGEANT FRED SMITH? No. MAJOR ZICKLER, IT WAS HIS OFFICE FOR THE BRIEFING?
Ben Jamison: But the film was not shown in the office where you had the briefing, was it? Didn’t you get up and go down the hall? Larry Warren: ‘When we first came in, all the papers – you go in the building and there’s a desk. The papers we signed were not in - we went down in a line and just signed papers. They were all in a block with our names and we just signed down. They had Xs marked on the ones we were not to sign and different flags of the reports. Then we walked into Zickler’s office. That’s where the film was and that’s where they did most of the talking behind closed doors. But the paper, we were very quiet. There were people there operating the controls.
OK, ZICKLER WAS IN AND OUT AND IT WAS HIS OFFICE FOR THE BRIEFING.
But he left for the film. He was not in there.
GREG BATTRAM?
Greg – I don’t believe Greg was there.
THOMPSON?
Yes, he was there.
HIS RANK WAS?
Airman or Senior Airman? I don’t remember what his rank was, but I think Senior Airman.
OF THE PEOPLE WHO CAME UP IN THAT NIGHT (THAT LARRY WARREN WAS INVOLVED), THERE WERE ONLY...
There are a lot of people I honestly don’t remember their names.
BUT OUT OF THAT NIGHT, IT APPEARS THAT ONLY THOMPSON, CARPENTER, YOU, AND THE NEW YORK GUY ARE THE ONLY ONES FROM YOUR NIGHT IN THE BRIEFING.
There were two Thompsons. There was a Dean Thompson, too. There were a couple of other people, but I don’t know their names. I had only been at Bentwaters for a month at that time (December 1980). A lot of these guys I had gone through training with down at Lackland in Texas, so I knew them.
HOW MANY WERE IN THAT BRIEFING ROOM (Major Malcolm Zickler’s office) AT ONE TIME? About ten. IT WAS NOT UNTIL MARCH 1981 THAT BUSTINZA CALLED YOU TO HIS ROOM AND WANTED TO UNLOAD ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED UNDERGROUND WITH HIM?
He wanted to rehash the case and the harassment he had been going through on base. He told me a lot things, a lot I don’t remember, but it was in March 1981, late March on a night.
IS THAT WHEN HE MENTIONED, ‘DID YOU SEE THE MAN WITH THE CAPE?’
Yeah. Now, this is something – I don’t know what context he was putting this in. There was something about something in the woods, something real tall, and he could hardly get words to describe it.
HE DID NOT TRY TO DESCRIBE TO YOU?
I don’t remember. I just remember something about it was bizarre. Some of the things he was saying, he seemed real upset, so I had no reason to question him.
Ben Jamison: Was he upset when you didn’t remember the man in the cape?
Larry Warren: No, it was like, ‘You’re kidding! No, I don’t remember anything like that.’ Maybe Adrian was saying it was something he saw. I don’t know. There was something he talked about that was very tall. I have an image in my head [ from listening to Bustinza] of a very tall thing like a person that was in a cape. That’s all Adrian mentioned. I don’t know how it fit in. I don’t remember. It was five years ago [ late March 1981] when Adrian and I had that conversation. I don’t remember the conversation, it was so long ago. But he said something about someone out there on a path in a long cape, very tall. I don’t remember how he put it, but it happened that night. I remember that was one of the scary parts when we were talking. Whether he said, ‘Did you see it?’ or ‘I saw it,’ or ‘It was there the whole time’? I don’t remember.
PART OF THE STORY I HAVE BEEN TOLD IS THERE WAS A NEED FOR SOME ELECTRONIC PART BY THE NON-HUMANS AND THERE WAS SOME KIND OF A LANDING. YOU HAVE SAID BEFORE THAT YOU HEARD CLEARLY COL. GORDON WILLIAMS, ‘WE’LL GET IT FROM ELECTRONICS.’
That is a little bit of Bustinza again (not me). See, I was trying to incorporate everything I heard and after it was sorted out, we’d find out if it were real or not. I would be the fall guy. I didn’t care because I knew it was real. Bustinza said to me – I mean, we don’t have a UFO supply on base and what would we have that they can use? And that’s what Bustinza said about parts or something flown from Germany.”
Bustinza said to me – I mean, we don’t have a UFO supply on base and what would we have that they can use? And that’s what Bustinza said about parts or something flown from Germany.” :
“LARRY, WHY DO YOU THINK I WAS TOLD THAT YOU WERE LEGITIMATE, BUT THAT YOUR STORY WOULD CHANGE BECAUSE YOU WERE TOLD TO MUDDY THE WATERS OR YOU WOULD BE HURT? THE IMPLICATION ALWAYS IS THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE HURT IN THEIR CAREERS OR THROUGH THE IRS OR SOME WAY.
I never was told that, to muddy the waters, ever. My biggest problem with the story changing is that I had all this information from everyone, including Bustinza. Obviously, I did not experience everything that happened on that base, but I took it all with me. And I was the first to come out. I made the mistake of not just dealing with what happened to me, in which you would have found nothing that deviated. But under all these different situations that caused a lot of problems, I tried to handle it, the whole thing.
FROM ADRIAN BUSTINZA.
Bustinza and other things I heard and I tried to put them all out to be sorted out. I said, ‘Some day if it’s wrong, it’s going to come out. People are either going to trust me enough, or it’s going to destroy my credibility.’ Now, for the most part, it has not (destroyed my credibility.)
DID YOU EVER GET A DESCRIPTION FROM JOHN BURROUGHS ABOUT WHAT HE TRIED TO GRAB ON TO?
Oh, no, I never knew that except from Lee Spiegel (NBC) when he talked to Col. Halt. about grabbing on to something in the forest. What Col. Halt said about me was all I was concerned with because I figured Col. Halt was giving out disinformation. He has to! He has no choice – like Barry Greenwood (Citizens Against UFO Secrecy) said, ‘Col. Halt seems to want to say something.’ Col. Halt said to Lee Spiegel, ‘There is so much more to this than I can say.’ Something happened to Col. Halt out there that he can’t talk about.
ONE GOVERNMENT SOURCE SAID IT WAS JOHN BURROUGHS WHO TRIED TO RUN UP TO THE CRAFT, OR ON IT, WHEN SOMETHING RED APPEARED.
I don’t endorse aliens, but I know in my heart I saw what I saw. I don’t know where it’s from. I don’t know why it’s here. And I always believed (in other life), always did.
Larry Warren’s Nightmares After RAF Bentwaters Phenomena In my dreams, something is talking. It’s alien – the alien feeling when you see these things. You can’t describe it because everything in the atmosphere around you does something. It gets charged, or so still. RAF Bentwaters – nothing will ever top that ever again!
CAN YOU CONCENTRATE ON THE FEELING YOU’VE EXPERIENCED IN YOUR NIGHTMARES. THINK ABOUT THE PART THAT IS SO UNPLEASANT YOU DON’T WANT TO THINK ABOUT, BUT TRY.
It’s like never in my life have I dreamed about UFOs ever. But about a year ago for the first time (1985) – you know how the story came out about how I came to talk about Bentwaters?
The Betty Andreasson Luca Connection I had oral surgery when I was fighting with the military at the time. I had 18 stitches in my mouth. I picked up the Hartford newspaper one day right after the surgery. Here I am reading the Hartford Current and here is this article – a woman standing next to a paper mache construction model of an alien entity she supposedly met. She is from the town next over from where I lived. I got a feeling. It said her husband worked at a Toyata company and was a manager there. I called up the place and asked to speak to Bob Luca. He came on the line and I told him I had just read the article in the Hartford Current and said, ‘I’m not a nut. Can we set up a time and place?’ He said, ‘Fine, I’ll call you later.’ Like a compulsion to hook up! I met them. Betty I believe truly had an experience. She brings a lot of religion into it. You’ll never find a finer, more decent person and very concerned for me, too. I get over to their house and tell them about RAF Bentwaters and sure enough, they know Larry Fawcett (Citizens Against UFO Secrecy). So Betty and Bob set up a meeting with Larry Fawcett and his wife, Lois. They came down a couple of weeks later. We went out to dinner and Larry was checking me out.
They had heard something about the Bentwaters case. I told them guardedly, just pieces. As time went by and I talked to him more, I gave him times and approximate dates – enough information to file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. And finally he gets a document and it just snowballed. Two weeks after I met Larry Fawcett, I’m sitting at home. My father’s wife is there and I asked, ‘Do you need anything at the store?’ She said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘I have to go to the store.’ I get up and go down to a convenience store, go in and there is Omni magazine. I never read Omni magazine, science fiction, and had no interest in it. But I pick up Omni and am flipping through it and see an item, ‘UFO Update.’ It said, ‘On a night on or about December 30, 1980, at RAF Bentwaters...’ And I go, ‘Oh, my God! It’s out! Someone is talking about it.’ So, I bought the magazine. I'd just gone public myself.
CNN Documentary Mentions E.T.s Sgt. Bob Ball talked about aliens. CNN’s Chuck De Caro told me, ‘Everyone that I talked to off the record verified everything. But when they got on the record, they would not talk about aliens at all, except Sgt. Ball. Listen to the CNN tape. Sgt. Ball says, ‘We saw life forms or a life form of some sort and vehicles that are not from this planet.’ It’s on the CNN tape. People blow past that.
GOING BACK TO THAT TIME PERIOD BETWEEN 1980 AND 1983, BUSTINZA WAS IN HIS ROOM AND HE TELLS YOU ABOUT THE UNDERGROUND. DID YOU SIT DOWN AND HAVE A ONE-ON-ONE WITH ANYBODY ELSE?
Adrian and I were one time going to try to get John Burroughs with us to talk, but we never did.
WAS IT COL. HALT WHO SAID THAT JOHN BURROUGHS HAD BEEN CAMPING IN THE FOREST FOR TWO WEEKS?
Halt, I’ve been there when Larry Fawcett talked to him on the phone when Halt was in England. And Halt hated me. I don’t know why, but Halt was furious, angry about people using his name and he said he was going to sue. Larry Fawcett said, ‘Colonel Halt, Art Wallace [ Larry Warren ] didn’t even know you were involved in this until the January 13, 1980, Halt memo came out.’
WHAT WAS COL. HALT’S RESPONSE TO WHAT WAS PUBLICIZED OVER HIS NAME? DID HE SAY, ‘YES, I DID THE MEMO VOLUNTARILY’? OR DID HE SAY HE WAS TOLD TO WRITE IT THE WAY THE MEMO IS WRITTEN?
He never commented. The fact that he waited until January 13, 1981, to write the memo to the MoD, like, ‘Oh, yeah, that thing that happened a couple of weeks ago.’ It was known that this was so big and so many people were involved in one aspect or another, there had to be at least one like me who would talk. There were others who did their share of talking, too. But that memo came out on purpose. If they really didn’t want the memo to be released, it would never have come out.
THE HALT MEMO AND THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE LETTER.
But Halt’s memo is inconsistent. When Chuck De Caro showed it to a lot of people, their response was that there were a lot of inconsistencies that didn’t match up with what they knew. That was the general consensus.
YOU ALSO HEARD ABOUT ELECTRONIC ENGLISH BEING HEARD IN THE CONTROL TOWER?
Yes, electronically synthesized version of English that was consistent with the MoD document that I only saw for the first time in Japan. I said, ‘The MoD has got it right
and they’ve got the date right, I believe.’ And I brought that document to this country! I was the first one to bring the MoD document here.
WHERE DID YOU GET THE DOCUMENT?
I’ve seen other flags of this MoD memo, too. It goes into different logistics and the whos and the whats.
WHO RELEASED IT?
All I know is how I got it. A TV producer in Japan showed it to me on a TV show I was doing there live. He said, ‘Read it.’ I read it and said, ‘It’s somewhat true. We were not SAC (Strategic Air Command), we were TAC (Tactical Air Command) – so that’s an inconsistency on there. Whoever leaked the MoD document knew something! The Japanese TV producer paid for it. Harry Harris had the tape [ of lights in Rendlesham? ] that was supposedly given to Harris by a Colonel who said, ‘Oh, I don’t believe in UFOs.’ Harry Harris sold the tape to Japanese TV, plus the MoD document. The Japanese TV producer asked me to not show the document to anybody, but I’ll be damned if I’m just going to keep evidence like that under my belt. I come back to the U. S. and I talk to a guy on the East Coast who says, ‘Let’s contact the National Enquirer! We can split the money. I’ll get $3,000 and you can have $2,000. I get $3,000 because I discovered you.’ I told my father and he said, ‘Larry, don’t be a fool. Don’t do that!’ I said, ‘Dad, I could use that cash.’ He said, ‘No way, don’t be an idiot.’ But sure enough, a guy from the National Enquirer calls me up. I told him, ‘I don’t know if it’s true or false. I’ve just got a document. He said, ‘Well, I don’t think there is too much to it.’ Money is tempting, but not that tempting. Here’s something - the British police were out in the field that night (of light phenomena) and they had cameras. They saw everything. These two English bobbies (policemen) are standing there and they took pictures. Then the USAF took their cameras away. Adrian Bustinza told Ray Boeche, ‘I was told to take their (U. K. police) camera.’” :
“IN THE BRIEFING WITH THE FILM CLIPS AND SIGNING THE NON- DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS, DID THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE NON-HUMANS IN RENDLESHAM FOREST?
No, never once! Never said the word ‘alien.’ Never used the word ‘UFO’ or ‘spaceship.’ Never! Nothing! It was all military regulations: who to speak to, what not to discuss. They went around it so smoothly. They never said anything, but we obviously knew what we were there for. Very clever people!
COULD YOU GO BACK OVER DETAILS AGAIN WHEN YOU SAT WITH ADRIAN BUSTINZA AND WHAT HE SAID?
We went over the Rendlesham incidents. He mentioned about something wearing a cape. How he fit that in, I don’t recall. It was about something tall with a cape. Now, whether he saw it or not, I don’t know. He told me about the underground facility with the classic Men In Black.
DETAILS?
He said they wore black suits. They had a big car with New York license plates. Adrian was called to meet the car. As soon as he got near it, I don’t know if he got shot or something, but he lost consciousness. But he said he remembered the interior of the car seemed too bright, like green. The dashboard lights seemed too bright. Someone else was with him in the car. They got in the back of the car and they were driven. Bustinza said he could only hear sound (he couldn’t open his eyes or move).
DID THEY GO INTO A BUILDING ON THE BASE?
They picked Adrian up just outside the door where he lived. Adrian was told to meet a car outside at a certain time.
WHO TOLD HIM?
I don’t know. I don’t remember. Someone called him on the phone and said meet such and such. I don’t know who, but he gets out there, gets in the car. This blew my mind – he said he was taken by two men and as they drove, he could not open his eyes and could not move for some reason when he got into the second car.
BUT HE COULD HEAR? He could hear they were near the flight line. Adrian said he could hear the jets landing. Bustinza said he could feel descent, going down (steps). The next thing he knew, he was eating in a room like a small cafeteria. He remembered things in pieces like being in a room full of high tech equipment with engineers around; being taken to this cavernous ... he told me something very interesting, too. At this time in England, there were all these TV commercials about Exxon and British Petroleum building underground tunnels. One in particular was built in Ireland leading from the sea. Adrian said from the underground catwalk he was on at Bentwaters, it was like in the same tunnel used in those Exxon and BP commercials. I was told it goes 13 miles into the North Sea and this is how these things (alien craft) enter and exit through the water. Adrian said he looked down from the underground catwalk and it was very dark, but there were some humans walking around and there was an object, a spaceship down there. He remembered in parts - I don’t know if he was being cautious with me. He went into another room and it was something like a classroom. Adrian and others were put in comfortable padded chairs. Bustinza said that all of a sudden he could not turn his head from side to side. He couldn’t see the person sitting next to him. Then some kind of screen came up in front of them. There was a light behind the screen that shown out toward him and the others in the room so you couldn’t really see what was behind the screen. They were briefed by a commander or general or someone – I don’t remember who. And then something walked up behind the screen. Adrian said he could see a strange silhouette behind the screen, but not what was making the silhouette, and it talked to him in his mind telepathically about a lot of things, including religion; how the American government and Russia weren’t what they seemed (supposedly Cold War enemies that really weren’t?); that bases (alien? human?) can be made invisible if they have to be or destroyed in a flick if they have to be. Everything on the surface of Earth is a mask for what's below ground! That’s also what another guy told me – it’s all false above ground covering up what is actually going on below. He told me that government is not real. I was saying, ‘Oh, man! with tears about some of the stuff.’
WHAT ELSE DID BUSTINZA SAY?
Religion and about Christ. They (military intel briefers?) knew his birth and life that no one else knew. Adrian was hearing this from a voice in his head!
DID BUSTINZA TELL YOU WHAT WAS COMMUNICATED TO HIM ABOUT CHRIST?
I think he did – something about the Pope in the Vatican.
OK, COULD YOU START FROM THE BEGINNING AGAIN. ADRIAN BUSTINZA COMES TO YOU TO TALK - PICTURE IT IN YOUR MIND.
Adrian is sitting just like you are on a bunk bed (Warren, Howe and Jamison are in a motel room at 1986 Connecticut conference) and I’m sitting in a chair – just like now exactly with you. Adrian told me the entity behind the screen in the underground room said religion is not what it seems. Religion is a control over people, but there is a Greater Force in the universe, much above whoever They (aliens) are. Something about the Pope and religion that I don’t remember. Then the Pope got shot soon after that (on May 13, 1981).
[ Editor’s Note: Wikipedia – “The first attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II took place on Wednesday, May 13, 1981, in St. Peter's Square at Vatican City. The Pope was shot and critically wounded by Mehmet Ali Agca, a trained sniper from Turkey, while he was entering the square. The Pope was struck four times by bullets from a Browning Hi-Power rifle, and suffered serious blood loss. Agca was apprehended immediately and later sentenced to life in prison by an Italian court.
The Fatima Connection: Our “Lady of Fatima” is the name given by three children tending sheep on a Fatima hillside in Portugal to a beautiful woman who appeared to them in glowing light above a tree. The children assumed the lady was the Virgin Mary and she first appeared to them on the May 13, 1917, and on the 13th day of each month thereafter until October 13, 1917. The Lady communicated “secrets of Fatima” about prophecies and the upcoming end of the world, particularly related to possible world war and the conversion of Russia away from Communism. The reported apparitions at Fatima were officially declared “worthy of belief” by the Catholic Church. On June 26, 2000, Pope John Paul II released the “Third Secret of Fatima” in which he said that the May 13, 1981, assassination attempt on his own life by Agca was the fulfillment of the third Fatima Secret. The resonance of the assassination attempt with the May 13th Fatima apparitions was something the Pope always regarded as significant, attributing his survival on May 13, 1981, to the Virgin Mary protecting John Paul. Many critics suspect that the Church did not provide full disclosure of the third Fatima Secret, believing that it actually predicted the Apocalypse. While in prison, Agca was reported to have developed an obsession with the Fatima miracle and during his trial claimed he was the second coming of Jesus Christ and asked the Vatican to release the whole Third Secret. On March 31, 2005, just two days prior to Pope John Paul's death, Agca gave an interview saying “the devil is inside Vatican's wall,” and claimed he had accomplices inside the Vatican who helped in the assassination attempt. Agca also said: “Many calculating politicians are worried about what revealing the complete truth would do. Some of them fear that the Vatican will have a spiritual collapse like the Berlin Wall. Let me ask: why don't the CIA, the Sismi, the Sisde and other intelligence agencies reveal the truth about the Orlandi case?” Emanuela Orlandi, the daughter of a Vatican employee, disappeared at age 15 on June 22, 1983. Anonymous phone calls offered her release in exchange for the release of Agca. Archbishop Paul Marcinkus was alleged to be part of the Orlandi kidnapping, although no charges were brought.]
Larry Warren: “The religion stuff was quite interesting to Adrian, who was raised Catholic, but he said it was described much different than we imagine. He was also told that the military structures were all a game between the U. S. and Russia corporations that make wars (for money). And you can see it with gas prices going up again right now (1986). This is a game being played here!
CAN YOU REMEMBER MORE OF WHAT BUSTINZA SAID ABOUT THE ALIEN COMMUNICATION?
Oh, my God – the most important thing I almost forgot. Adrian told me, ‘They are coming here! – this is Adrian Bustinza talking – They are among us! You might know them and there are people on the base who either work with them or are them.’
I asked, ‘How do the aliens look like human beings?’
He said, ‘They do! And the aliens are in government.’
This really blew my mind – the aliens are in government in levels beyond the President. The President is nothing, only an ornament like all the world leaders are ornaments. There are so many things – when I got upgraded security. Like General Gordon Williams would have a TOP SECRET clearance, I had a SECRET clearance. They said there were 38 levels above TOP SECRET in the government – I was told this directly when I was getting my SECRET clearance.
Bustinza told me, ‘The President means nothing and a lot of our government is Them (aliens). He said they are from something that is dying, having to come here, and they have been doing it since the 1940s, coming here and getting into society some how. Something about the mail system and there are underground bases – Plattsburgh, New York, was named (not far from White Mountains of New Hampshire where Betty and Barney Hill described a non-human abduction in September 19–20, 1961.) Under a lot of military bases, there are underground facilities that are massive, apparently. Off of Florida is one of the biggest underwater/ underground installations. In South America, the aliens have a massive installation off Peru. The Peruvian government is fully aware it’s there and they stay away. They don’t mess with it.
OK, LET’S GO BACK TO BUSTINZA. HE SITS DOWN ON THE BED AND YOU ARE SITTING IN A CHAIR NEAR HIM. HOW DID HE START?
He was crying! He was crying, a grown man crying telling me these things.
HE STARTS OUT CRYING LIKE HE HAD BEEN HOLDING SOMETHING IN?
Yes, it was like so frustrating to him. He said, ‘I want to get out of here. I’m either going to kill someone or they are going to kill me before it’s over.’ Apparently, Bustinza pulled a knife on a black Lieutenant (Bonnie Tamplin?) who was pressuring him about something. He flipped and pulled a knife on her.
BUSTINZA PULLED A KNIFE ON A BLACK LIEUTENANT?
Yes, he told me this.
THE LIEUTENANT WAS PRESSURING BUSTINZA TO KEEP QUIET?
Something. I don’t recall. I’ve told you all I remember about that conversation. There was so much to it. It was emotionally charged and Adrian even had me on the border of tears because after having the experience (in Rendlesham Forest), Adrian is laying on to me that I’m sitting on top of an alien base here on Earth (that RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge would be the surface above an underground, non-human- controlled base). I had no reason to disbelieve that the aliens are here. Adrian told me exactly where the underground facility is (near RAF Bentwaters). I told Larry Fawcett, ‘I have to fess up here – I did not experience the underground facility firsthand. It was Bustinza’s story.’ Larry Fawcett said, ‘OK.’
I UNDERSTAND. PLEASE CONTINUE MORE WITH WHAT ADRIAN BUSTINZA TOLD YOU.
OK, it hit religion, especially about the aliens coming into society somehow and they are doing something – I don’t know if they are taking over, but they have identities taken care of by the governments of the world – and something about Third World countries are almost insignificant.
SO WHAT IS THE GAME BEING PLAYED BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND THE SOVIET UNION THROUGH THE NON-HUMAN ALIENS?
The Soviet Union has had major catastrophes with these (alien) things. Some of them (aliens) dislike the Soviet Union a great deal. Others like the Soviets and some deal with them - are those the maggots of the space races? Adrian said he was told there are hundreds, thousands of other alien races that have come here through the centuries - millions of years - and have always been here, much longer than we humans have. And we are the genetic descent of them or of something the aliens have had to do with. {Sacha edit. Adrian told me warren did not go to Egypt} I went to Egypt and had the experience of seeing the pyramids. The Egyptians believe the pyramids were built by extraterrestrials. But all the science books I read in school said the stones were rolled on sticks. But those stones are huge! I got to Egypt under a strange circumstances as well. I got orders cut for me just after Adrian told me about his underground experience. I got orders cut for Italy. They said, ‘You’re going to go TDY for a month.’ We got on a plane late one night in a group of ten or eleven security police. We stopped in Germany, picked up some more security guys in a C-130, and then flew off to Italy. When we were at Aviano AFB (northeast of Milan), we flew to Athens, Greece. Then we flew from Athens to Turkey where we picked up things. Then we flew from Turkey to Ben Gurion Airport in Israel and then flew into Cairo. We were driven a long way out to this area and had tents pitched. There was a huge radar tower coming out of the middle of nowhere and a huge mountain range so heavily armed and fortified and had nuclear weapons in it – it was amazing! With my SECRET clearance, whatever this place was, I never found out. We had to do communications work there and some security. We worked with some Egyptian security that did perimeter, but none of us ever got to go in. There was a tunnel carved out like Strategic Air Command (SAC) in Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado Springs, Colorado. That tunnel was in Egypt - connected to a big underground. This facility was so massive that I was told it was larger than the state of New York underground! It was so tight under security forces that if any security guy fell asleep on duty there, the security police will be shot by their own superiors. Those people take care only of exterior security. You would never get inside. I saw a few people come out of the facility. In the mountains, you could see like glass in the crevices and every now and then you would see a person walk by where the mountain is very high up. (laughs) It was very high tech and very strange! These tunnels were in the middle of nowhere and there were no visible electric power towers nearby. Adrian said the Exxon and British Petroleum TV commercial campaigns were done to keep the public and media away from seismic disturbances (during construction of massive underground tunnels in the U. K.). I went into this place that was dug out of a mountain like a palace and when you went into it, there were all these pictures on the walls.
WAS IT IN LUXOR, THE VALLEY OF THE KINGS?
Yes, the Valley of the Kings. I’m going along narrow path with rails along side with the paintings on the walls and here is this part and our guide said, ‘There are a lot of spirits in the pyramids. Don’t take photographs, Larry, with your flash because that damages the paintings on the walls.’ Everyone did it anyway! Adrian was with me there. I had a 110 camera. Adrian had a real nice camera.
ADRIAN BUSTINZA WENT WITH YOU TO EGYPT?
Yes, he was with me. I picked up my camera and started snapping pictures. Every time everyone picked up their camera to take pictures, it looked like a hand was put over your lens. Everyone was looking around at each other and looking at their cameras and put the cameras up again to take a picture. Same thing – the hand – all the time in a certain area. Then we got to this place where there was a dog with pointed ears, black. And the tour guide says, ‘That means death.’ I took a picture real quick with the flash. I didn’t know if it would come out. I had the photograph checked by a photography expert and he couldn’t explain it. You see it getting dark just until the dog’s head is there and it is dark all around it. That was the only picture that did that effect.
WHEN DID YOU AND BUSTINZA GO TO EGYPT?
In March 1981, the third month after all the stuff happened in Rendlesham Forest.
WAS IT IN EGYPT THAT BUSTINZA BROKE DOWN TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE UNDERGROUND INSTALLATION AT BENTWATERS?
No, we had just gotten back at the end of March or early April 1981. In Egypt, we never talked about anything, we just had a good time. But our Egyptian guide told us in the little pyramid museum there, ‘You might have heard in school that the pyramids were built by rolling stones on logs. The actual fact is that the pyramids were mined (stones cut out) 300 miles from here. At that time, there were three big rivers each the width of the Hudson River that the builders would have to have crossed coming back from that stone quarry to get to where the pyramids are now standing. The stones were cut with laser precision and there are no chisel marks. There weren’t enough trees to roll the big blocks of stone and if they built sand up like they say, the guide said the makers would still be building the pyramids!
A GOVERNMENT GUY I’VE TALKED TO SAID THE PYRAMIDS WERE BUILT BY THE GREY NON-HUMANS.
It had to be by somebody else, not us humans! No way!
WHAT ARE THE PYRAMIDS REALLY FOR?
We were at the pyramids at night and if you stand there in the center between all three of them (Giza) – there are two smaller ones and the one big one (Cheops) – there are three bright stars that match up with each one. And in the center is the constellation Pleiades. Now, I’ve been told that some of the aliens come from the Pleiades.
DURING ALL THAT TIME IN EGYPT, ADRIAN BUSTINZA NEVER SAID ANYTHING TO YOU UNTIL YOU GOT BACK?
No, he didn't.
OK, HE’S SITTING ACROSS FROM YOU ON THE BED. WAS RELIGION THE VERY FIRST THING HE TALKED ABOUT?
I don’t remember the order.
WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THE POPE?
I don’t know. There was something about the Pope and that they have something at the Vatican. They know exactly what it is and it would destroy religion. Adrian said there were predictions made and they have all come true. There was a last prediction that will not be shown to the public. We know that Pope Pius saw something in 1960 and said, ‘Oh, lock that stuff up!’
FATIMA?
I don’t know. All the Popes see whatever it is, but they won’t release it. Whatever it is, it destroys religion.
DID HE TALK ABOUT THE ALIENS HAVING MADE CHRIST?
Not so much making Christ, but he said Christ had dealings with the aliens. Christ didn’t have a jet to get around on and yet he was supposed to be in China and England and other places.
WHAT MORE DO YOU REMEMBER BUSTINZA SAYING ABOUT OUR GOVERNMENT?
He said the government isn’t real as we see it. The president of the United States isn’t real (not real power). These aliens control everything and the human leaders just answer to whoever. There are people or aliens way above. The president just does his job like a janitor, really. Ben Jamison: Did Adrian say why the aliens are doing all this?
Warren: I don’t know if Adrian said it was for good or for bad. And that’s why I was kind of scared after the conversation. I knew one thing – I wanted to get the hell off that base!” :
“DID YOU ASK HIM WHAT WAS THE ALIEN BEHIND THE LIGHTED SCRIM TALKING TO YOU FOR?
Adrian Bustinza never said it was an alien behind the lighted scrim underground, but it was his impression that it was.
WHAT WAS THE THING BEHIND THE SCREEN TALKING TO YOU FOR? WHAT DID ADRIAN SAY?
The thing was talking to everyone in the room at the same time (telepathically), but individually inside each mind. Explain that! And Adrian said he could not turn his head side-to-side. But that’s really all I remember. That’s why I took enough of it, the main parts and as you said coming into society, I had forgotten that was the main point of the whole thing. Evolution.
WHAT DID HE SAY ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP OF HUMANS TO THE ALIENS? ANYTHING ABOUT THE ALIENS MADE US?
Yeah, basically that we were from them. That’s what Adrian said.
UNDERNEATH IN ALL THESE BASES, THE REALITY BETWEEN HUMAN AND ALIEN COMMUNICATION OF WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE EARTH IS HAPPENING BELOW GROUND AND NOT ON THE SURFACE WE JUST PLAY OUT SO-CALLED HUMAN EXISTENCE?
Our military bases are like a decoy – like a big staged play. I don’t know how or why. I don’t really want to get into this because it wasn’t me really. It was Adrian’s experience and I’m just repeating. Adrian said that if it were all found out, the bases (human? alien?) can be gone like a snap of fingers. What he meant, I don’t know. I asked him, ‘You mean blown up?’ Adrian just said, ‘Gone. You wouldn’t see them.’ Maybe England is a UFO itself?! Who knows? I don’t know. That was it – just mind blowing stuff. If I had never had a UFO experience and someone told me that stuff, I would have said, ‘No way!’ But we have so many surface problems on Earth to deal with and I guess this – underground? – is their home, their bases.
BUT IF THE ALIENS ARE CONTROLLING EVERYTHING ON EARTH, TO WHAT END? IF THE ALIENS ARE WALKING AMONG US DISGUISED AS HUMANS, YOU DON’T REMEMBER WHAT HE SAID ABOUT WHY?
Adrian said what it’s all about, but I don’t remember if it is good or bad. I can’t remember. If it was a good reason they are here or a negative reason. I don’t remember. But I remember leaving that conversation angry and frightened, so I’m sure it probably wasn’t good. I don’t know. But it all seems like games – the humans and their little games in the government as we call them play games. People die in the mean time. Adrian also said that water was an attraction, a necessity, but I don’t know why. Water is a big deal.
AND THE FACT THAT THE ALIENS SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH EITHER DYING OR WEAKNESS?
Well, I think if they are coming here and wanting to stay – this one race or whatever – then they have a problem somewhere. Adrian told me something about their planet is gone or blew up or something like that and the aliens – they have massive ships and they are on the moon and everywhere! But there are different races of aliens, including enemies. I told Adrian, ‘This sounds like Buck Rogers.’ But I had to believe him. I don’t know if I do now. I don’t know. It’s very big!
ONE OF THE SCENARIOS I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY A NEW JERSEY SCIENTIST WHO WAS ABDUCTED IN 1982 IS THAT THE ALIEN SAGA IS
MUCH OLDER THAN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM’S AGE. THEIR ORIGINAL SUN SUPERNOVAED AFTER THE ALIENS WERE ADVANCED ENOUGH TO BUILD TECHNOLOGY TO ESCAPE THEIR HOME PLANET. BUT THEIR PROBLEM IS THAT SOMETHING HAPPENED IN THE EVOLUTION OF THEIR BIOLOGY. THE SCIENTIST SAYS THAT THE ALIENS TOLD HIM THERE IS A BELL-SHAPED CURVE TO THE EVOLUTION OF DNA, SO THAT EVENTUAL DECLINE AND DETERIORATION OF DNA IS GUARANTEED. AND NOW THE NON- HUMANS ARE TRYING TO CREATE OTHER KINDS OF BIOLOGICAL CONTAINERS THAT CAN TAKE ON THEIR SPIRITUAL ENTITIES, THEIR ESSENCE, TO CARRY ON BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEIR BIOLOGY IS DESTINED FOR EXTINCTION. THUS, THIS IS A STORY OF RESURRECTION THROUGH OTHER LIFE FORMS.
Ben Jamison: That might explain the abduction of people who have a higher form of consciousness that other humans don’t have. The abductees are the people being shepherded through. You get this through Philip K. Dick was working through something like this before he died.
[ Editor’s Note: Wikipedia - Philip Kindred Dick (December 16, 1928 – March 2, 1982) was an American novelist, short story writer and essayist whose published work during his lifetime was almost entirely in the science fiction genre. In his later works, Dick's thematic focus strongly reflected his personal interest in metaphysics and theology. The novel The Man in the High Castleconcerned alternate history and earned a Hugo Award for Best Novel in 1963.Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said was a novel about a celebrity who woke up in a parallel universe won the John Campbell Memorial Award for best novel in 1975. Dick wrote of these stories, “In my writing, I even question the universe; I wonder out loud if it is real, and I wonder out loud if all of us are real?” On February 20, 1974, Dick was recovering from the effects of sodium pentothal administered for the extraction of an impacted wisdom tooth. Answering the door to receive delivery of extra analgesic, he noticed that the delivery woman was wearing a pendant with a symbol that Dick called the "vesicle pisces" (correct term would have been Vesica pisces). This name seems to have been based on his confusion of two related symbols, the ichthys (two intersecting arcs delineating a fish in profile) that early Christians used as a secret symbol, and the Vesica piscis, a shape that is the intersection of two circles with the same radius, intersecting in such a way that the center of each circle lies on the circumference of the other. The name literally means the “bladder of a fish” in Latin.
After the delivery woman's departure, Dick began experiencing strange visions. Although they may have been initially attributable to the medication, after weeks of visions he considered this explanation implausible. “I experienced an invasion of my mind by a transcendentally rational mind, as if I had been insane all my life and suddenly I had become sane.” Throughout February and March 1974, he experienced a series of visions, which he referred to as “two-three-seventy four” (2-3-74), shorthand for February-March 1974. He described the initial visions as laser beams and geometric patterns and occasionally brief pictures of Jesus and of ancient Rome. As the visions increased in length and frequency, Dick claimed he began to live a double life, one as himself, “Philip K. Dick,” and one as “Thomas,” a Christian persecuted by Romans in the 1st century A.D. ]
THE SCIENTIST ABDUCTEE SAYS THERE WILL BE A REAPING ON EARTH THAT HUMANS WILL INTERPRET TO BE A NATURAL CATACLYSM. HE PROJECTED THAT ONE-THIRD OF EARTH LIFE WILL BE WIPED OUT, ONE- THIRD WILL REMAIN AND ONE-THIRD WILL BE TAKEN AWAY BY THE ALIENS - A KIND OF REVELATIONS STORY. SEVERAL ABDUCTEES HAVE VARIATIONS ON THIS THEME.
Warren: Well, I don’t think I’m an abductee.
Howe: WHAT IF ADRIAN BUSTINZA WAS ABDUCTED?
Warren: But think for a minute – what if none of what Adrian told me is true.
Ben Jamison: Yes, since 1984, I have been casting around to see if I could find information to corroborate what you told me about Bustinza and there seems to be more and more about cooperating with the aliens. I decided the governments can never release this information because they can’t say they are cooperating with aliens and letting our people be abducted.
Howe: THE MUTILATIONS OF ANIMALS ALLEGEDLY ARE PART OF THE HARVESTING OF GENETIC MATERIAL TO CREATE HUMANOIDS OR ANDROIDS. THAT’S PART OF THE SCIENTIST’S STORY – THAT THE ALIENS CAN WALK AMONG US DISGUISED IN HUMAN CONTAINER BODIES.
Warren: Have you ever seen the real mutilated animal bodies?
Howe: SURE – DOZENS OF THEM. THE FIRST THING THAT HITS YOU IS HOW PERFECT THE ANIMALS ARE LYING THERE, BLOODLESS, CLEAN EXCISIONS. THERE IS NO SIGNS OF VIOLENCE. YOU ARE LOOKING AT ANIMALS THAT HAVE COOKIE CUTTER EXCISIONS AROUND AN EAR, EYE, JAW FLESH, TONGUE, THE GENITALS AND THE RECTUMS ARE CORED OUT.
Warren: Well, I always hear your name when it comes to animal mutilation research. Have you ever heard of people mutilated?
Howe: I have received several anecdotes without proof. There have been reports from Texas and Canada of women discovered with one breast cleanly and bloodlessly removed. The Canadian case was supposed to involve some Royal Canadian Mounted Police that came upon a car parked on the side of a road. The motor was still running, I think. The woman behind the wheel was wearing an expensive tweed suit with nice jewelry. She was dead. When authorities had her examined, it was discovered that her left breast had been removed beneath her still-intact bra. Here left eye, I think, was also removed like animal mutilations. But when I tried to get proof - a pathology report or any forensic confirmation from authorities - I ran into brick walls. I've run into the same stonewalling with coroners offices in some other cases. But I think it's possible that Homo sapiens generally is off limits in the global mutilation of animals because humans are some kind of valuable experiment of the aliens. The non-humans have something serious at stake in what they are doing here on Earth. Human survival is somehow of crucial importance to whatever the alien agenda is - according to the New Jersey scientist who was abducted. I think when we started exploding atomic bombs in 1945, we were going to hurt the alien experiment and provoked all kinds of attention in the first UFO flaps. And I think it's pretty clear from events at Malmstrom AFB in Great Falls, Montana, and Minot AFB in Minot, North dakota, that the aliens can interfere with our nuclear missiles and selectively manipulate targeting information - as described in Minutemen nuclear missiles 80 feet underground beneath thick cement.
Warren: What happened at RAF Bentwaters seems like a dream. Sometimes I ask myself, ‘Did this really happen?’
Howe: I would so much like to talk with Adrian Bustinza. Where is he now?
Warren: You'll never reach him, but his family lives in Texas. He works in a correctional facility or something. He doesn't want anyone to bother him because he has a government job. Chuck De Caro (former 1984 CNN investigative reporter) said Adrian is really shook up. Larry Fawcett inquired some military place for information about me and Bustinza. Fawcett got a card back from the government from whatever agency he was using to trace military people and the reply on both Adrian and me was there were no records of either of us in the USAF.
Jamison: I know someone who talked to Bustinza's parents about organizing a congressional hearing on the Bentwaters incident and the parents said there would be absolutely nothing unless it's White House orders because it's too big for a congressional committee.
Howe: In some ways, you begin to feel like that if we are for the first time as a species becoming conscious of the truth of our makers and experimenters, it's almost as if there is a strange branch in human evolution in which we either become fighters against our keepers? Or we make some exponential leap that is going to throw all of our religious and sociological and biological precepts right out the window? But there are parts of this planet that won't accept other life forms no matter what - it will be Evil. So what does it all mean? If the White House made the announcement tomorrow, some will say the United States is lying and others will say we are all evil and the world keeps going on in irrational conflicts. So, unless the extraterrestrial biological entities themselves make their presence known in a powerful way such as their aerial craft all around Earth and everybody has to look at the skies.
Warren: It's the only way!
Howe: That's right.And one other thing, did Adrian Bustinza suggest a connection between the appearance of UFOs and wars?
Warren: I remember Adrian said there will never again be a war with the Soviet Union directly. He said war would only be indirectly through Third World countries. How Adrian said that specifically and how it fit in, I don't know. But it's all set up that way (like a game?) Just Third World countries - let them fight it out. We support and the Soviets support.
Howe: So the skirmishes stay smaller and more contained? Adrian's telling you that wars are allowed for human entertainment?
Warren: Maybe because war keeps people in fear. I don't think most people want war. But I don't remember Adrian saying - I've never gotten on where these beings are from or who they are. I just saw something in Rendlesham.
Jamison: Maybe American authorities have been told the Greys support the Americans and the Swedes (blond aliens) are the bad guys who deal with the Russians. But maybe it's the other way around - maybe the Russians are told the Greys support them and the Swedes are the bad guys and they are supporting the Americans. What technology could governments have for mind-bending, especially cooperating with UFOs. You can't trust government informants. You couldn't trust Bustinza's story by itself. You couldn't trust your story by itself. My skin began to creep when you said you heard, ‘I want you to see this paper’ and he sat you in a special chair in a special location. Well, it might not have been recording. There is one aspect of mind control that just fascinated government types for about 30 years and that is
influencing people from a distance or through casual contact. And now we have human abductee stories that sometimes seem to be in line with this mind control scenario. And now you are describing our science friend from New Jersey coming up with similar stories.
Linda: Yes, it is fascinating. He and I have talked about his consciously being aware that his body and some other part of himself split in two and he described seeing his body in the car, but he was simultaneously traveling above the round craft and descending inside of it where the several grey beings were waiting and fixed his heart. It's a very complex story, including the evolutionary problem of a very ancient race of other beings. Now he says he was shocked at the idea there could be a bell-shaped curve to the evolution of DNA. He said the aliens communicated it was only because their civilization had evolved for so long that they finally reached a point where the aliens could see that there was some kind of mathematical restriction to the continuation of their DNA. Then there was a Spanish abductee I met who said she saw a hologram aboard an alien craft that showed our Earth when it was covered by molten red lava and then lots of scenes as the planet evolved up to dinosaurs. Then she was shown that the Grey aliens somehow transported different types of dinosaurs off Earth before some kind of destruction and that dinosaurs are preserved on a whole planet somewhere like we would preserve animals in a zoo. She had the impression that the Grey types revere the diversity of life forms and keep all life forms somehow going on a planet or different planets? Throughout the abduction literature, pieces of a similar odd story emerge. And it's a huge, sad story - a motive to survive that I as a human can understand that if we humans were faced with our sun going into supernova and we could get off Earth, there would still be longing to perpetuate life again where the dying sun had once been.
Jamison: Chromosomal structure is constantly changing. The germ plasma that goes on and on probably becomes fatally flawed as a function of time.
Howe: Larry, another subject I should ask you about came to me from a retired military man who knew about a Colonel who stayed with the first captured, live, grey alien at Los Alamos between 1949 and 1952. He said that the alien communicated that reincarnation is real, that the cycling of souls is the machinery of the universe. If reincarnation is real and souls are recycled and aliens are controlling this planet because they have some huge experiment going on, are they in control of our soul recycling? In that alleged briefing paper for the President of the United States I was shown at Kirtland AFB Office of Special Investigations on April 9, 1983, there was a paragraph that said two thousand years ago these extraterrestrials created a being in human form to be placed on this planet to teach humans about love and non-violence. If the aliens interacting with Earth can create human body containers, and you have the Jesus Christ story that says there is life after death, that means there really is another dimension beyond this biological life. The implication was the aliens produced a theatrical production with Christ on a cross to have him killed in front of lots of people and then later walked among some people who recognized him and said, ‘That's Jesus!’ If that was alien theater, the implication is the aliens had already experimented with the Homo sapiens body in their light beam technology that can do all kinds of transporting and even healing. That's one of the Los Alamos stories that the alien there got sick and asked our government to contact his civilization some how so he could be put in one of the light beams to be healed - a kind of resurrection technology. Like Spielberg's E.T. film. And talking about TOP SECRET technology that you said might be related to RAF Bentwaters that might be of interest to the aliens, are you talking about nuclear weapons?
Warren: Yes, nuclear weapons at RAF Bentwaters. Now, when I was in England, that was taboo to talk about. We weren't supposed to have nukes there, but through arrangements with the British government, we had them there. The British population hates nuclear weapons, didn't want them and I can't blame them. Nuclear weapons were already there at Bentwaters, which is why we had the Hot Row weapons storage area! We used to tell the English contractors when they came in and asked, ‘What do you keep inside those Weapons Storage Areas (WSA)?' And we were supposed to tell them, ‘We keep a big cork there and if people ask too many questions, we're going to pull it and sink England.’
Howe: In terms of political control, do you remember anything Bustinza said about any Earth wars, like WWII, the Korean War, other being related?
Warren: No, I don't remember if Adrian did.
Howe: The Pope?
Warren: Something about the Pope and about religion and the average folk don't know anything! But Adrian said the aliens are here and they are in control. But for some reason, as you said, the aliens are allowing humans to do their thing.
Howe: Perhaps the goal is to maintain a more virile biology, us human creations, while they refine us to become more like them. That would imply that inside humans there is a duality that we feel intuitively about it all. If the whole point of religions is to try to homogenize humans and make us all the same and think the same and be the same, something in the essence of Homo sapiens always fights to be separate and apart as an individual. The aliens are supposed to be much more hive-minded than humans. Humans are somehow the opposite of that, even if we are supposed to be an alien creation.”
Could all be true, but it is worthless without the tape. And using a transcript without the tape just looks bad.
ReplyDeleteTell Linda Moulton Howe that. Shes the one witholding it. Also Larry Warren replied to the first part released but now denies even having the conversation.
DeleteNot my problem either way. Linda is deliberately withholding it, ask yourself why she would do that and ask yourself why would Warren reply if it never happened.
This is one small blip in the entire 40 years of contradictions.
Go listen to 2 og his shows, a few years apart and find out for yourself, dont take my word for it. Please feel free to check yourself. Its not hard Mr Anonymous, won't even post under your own name.