The Cop and The Conman

Gary Heseltine 

I was recently sent a huge pile of dirge. I didn't quite know what the deal was at first but then as my eyes managed to begin to focus on the mess in front of me, I laughed, I really did! I am not just saying it to be a wind up,   I look at this stuff coming from Heseltine and it is just basics. It is nothing in depth, hard hitting, or even correct. Asks a question, Larry lies, Gary accepts the lie with a smugness that is probably has toxic fall out in five mile radius. All I see is a smug man pontificating with an air of authority Eric Cartman would be proud of.


I am reading this thing I have been sent and thanks to Nick Pope popping in on my Facebook page and letting me know that this mess of a letter is in response to Nick Pope having sent out an email to people in December. If I had known about that, I have forgotten. After all it isn't that big a deal in the scheme of things, it is just an email right?  So I thought anyway.


To Gary it was the crime of the century and he knows what crime is, so he says.... I get halfway down and see my name mentioned, well done Gary you finally said my name! I am a bit like Voldemort though aren't I? Swooping in wherever my name is mentioned, casting my dark forces over everyone, bewitching them and controlling their minds! Mwuahahahaw!

Oh but then he got so much wrong! That is why I laughed. The great Detective, the one who told us all he was CID,  in actual fact he was not CID, he was British Transport Police. He got in trouble for lying about that. Lost a camera with vital evidence on it... Had a fine, all that kind of malarkey.

So I thought okay, this is a chain letter then. Nick Pope starts it, Gary regurgitates a load of rubbish and so I am going to respond too now. I will have course have to reproduce it all here, so as usual, bit of a long one, but crammed with facts, pictures, crayon drawings, braille..... Because somebody is blind. He bitches about Nick sending an email, then does the same thing, but it is ok when he does it., Everything is okay when he does it.





Gary's email

MERRY CHRISTMAS - A CAPEL GREEN SMEAR CAMPAIGN – THE NATURE OF EVIDENCE


On Tuesday 11th December 2018 a number of recipients to an email sent by Nick Pope have duly sent me a copy of that email.


Here is a list of people who were recipients of that email, many are people I know and are prominent researchers:

André Skondras, Stanton Friedman, J. Ritzmann, Peter Davenport, Leslie Kean, Bruce Maccabee, George Knapp, John Schuessler, Frank Warren, Kevin Randle, Ryan Wood, Paola Harris, Philip Mantle, John Hilkevitch, Lee Speigel, John Greenewald, Tom Carey, Chris Rutkowski, Donald Schmitt, Giuliano Marinkovic, Jerome Clark and Richard Dolan.



The exact wording of that email is as follows:



Date: Tuesday, December 11, 2018, 2:09 PM

André, As you may be aware, the Larry Warren fraud was definitively exposed well over a year ago now. His story unravelled when it was shown to be partly stolen from genuine witnesses, and partly made-up. Following the exposure of the fraud, Warren's co-author disassociated himself from their previous collaboration, and his publisher terminated distribution of his book, in view of the "inaccurate or embellished" content.

Despite being touted as a documentary about the Rendlesham Forest incident, Capel Green seems to be an attempt to rebrand the Larry Warren fraud, perhaps trying to sell it to people who are unaware that the story was proved to be bogus. It's not clear whether the filmmakers simply haven't done their due diligence, or whether they're aware of Warren's lies but simply don't care that they're promoting a false narrative.

Either way, the UFO community is getting understandably annoyed at what looks like an attempt to con them a second time with the same bogus story.


Best wishes,


Nick Pope


THE FIRST THING TO SAY

I think the first thing to say about this email is ‘WOW’! Go for it Nick!

Now if Nick’s email had been accurate and well sourced then he would have had legitimate grounds to contact colleagues in such a way because I have always believed it is better to be for-warned and therefore for-armed.

However, upon taking stock of his email the realisation dawned on me that I cannot allow him to cast doubt on my personal integrity by way of his attack on the Capel Green documentary of which he knows I am the lead researcher and co-writer, so I have decided to respond to that email with a critical analysis of it based on the FACTS and not unsourced ‘slander’.

Gary, it is NOT slander. It is LIBEL. Slander is the spoken word, Libel is written. S for short lived, L for long standing, that might help you remember the way it works. L is for Libel. But the truth is never libel, so that is a moot point. 

I think the intent of his email is pretty clear to anyone who reads it – stay away from looking at the Capel Green documentary that is in production, it’s not based on facts, it’s a rebranding of a ‘known’ fraudulent story i.e. that of Larry Warren.

It is based on three decades of people outing Warren for his lies. None of this is new news. It also had nothing to do with Capel Green, this is one of your manipulation techniques. This was about Warren lying to my face and dragging me into his machiavellian schemes for YEARS without me realising what he was doing. How could anyone ever be that devious? Well he is.

I believe the email shows clear evidence of a campaign to smear Larry Warren, the Capel Green documentary and myself indirectly as the lead researcher and co-writer. Clearly anyone associated with this documentary is either complicit to Warren’s lies and the film represents, in his view, an attempt to ‘con’ the UFO community.

Capel Green was not even a twinkle in your eye when Warren and I fell out in November 2015. He then sent me a me a message threatening my home. Where were you then? Nowhere, because it was nothing to do with you. 

Now Nick has carved out a hugely successful media career for himself since he first declared in 1996 on BBC2’s prestigious political programme ‘Newsnight’ that he believed that some UFOs were extraterrestrial. Yes, I know some of you will be shaking your head at this point, but he really did say that.

Yeah that really pisses you off doesn't it? Jealous much?

A Newsnight link to a Nick Pope Interview. Gary can't stand that he isn't the go to guy.

Now in the process of carving out that media career he has become the ‘go-to’ guy for UFOs in Britain and to a degree around the world. Afterall, he had credibility because between 1991-1994 he worked as a low grade civil servant in the one person ‘UFO Desk office’ for the Ministry of Defence.

Funny that, you told everyone you were CID but it turns out you were British Transport Police, for people who don't know, they police trains and train stations, train tracks. Although Gary claims to have single handedly solved the London Bombings. 

He regularly posts articles in Britain in national newspapers even though he is US based so he clearly still has significant influence in terms of media contacts both in the UK.

So what? If you are as brilliant as you make yourself out to be, why haven't you got those contacts? 

It is with that in mind that the significance of this email that he sent out on 11th December 2018, to many prominent UFO researchers, should not be under-estimated and it is for that reason that I feel I have to respond because to say nothing might give the impression to people reading it that what he said in it had credence when in fact it has none whatsoever.

That is your opinion Gary. Based on the evidence multitudes of people have presented over the past three decades, there is good cause to be concerned. Barry Greenwood and Larry Fawcett discovered Warren was lying, they dropped him. That was way back in the mid 1980s. He lied to everyone and they all knew he was a liar back then. Again in the 90's Georginga Bruni revealed his lies to her, ones that she wrote about in her book You Can't Tell The People. Linda Moulton Howe transcribed a conversation she had with him and Benton Jamieson. James Eastern, Steve LaPlume, Peter Robbins, Duane Carleton, May Pang, Craig Hopkins, Myself...  the list goes on. Of course they all had an agenda too I suppose? 


Now unlike his ‘unsourced’ email I will go through the text, line by line, with the FACTS of the matter and I will leave it for ordinary people and those researchers who received it to judge the merits of my response.

I will do the same. 


BREAKDOWN OF THE EMAIL WITH FACTS

Extract: As you may be aware, the Larry Warren fraud was definitively exposed well over a year ago now. His story unravelled when it was shown to be partly stolen from genuine witnesses, and partly made-up.

This is true see Left Out At Eastgate

Left Out At Eastgate

Sadly, this occurred almost three years ago and the Larry Warren ‘fraud’ was triggered by the ‘claims’ of his former ‘number one’ fan, an out and out LW supporter for approximately 9 YEARS who then made a 180 degree turnabout to become his ‘number one’ hater intent on destroying/discrediting LW. Her name, Sacha Christie.

This is your weakest argument. I was not Warren's number one fan, I was his friend for nine years. Friend and supporter. In actuality I was his useful idiot and he was never my friend, he has opportunities, not friends. I don't hate him either. I was very angry at first when I realised he was a liar and I had enabled him. I had put a roof over his head, I was furious. Now I feel nothing for him. Not hate, I am incredulous still. Even more so now that you are doing this for him. He doesn't give a toss about you, he cares only for himself. 

Sacha Christie was soon joined by three other people, David Young, James Welsh and Alyson Dunlop to form a four-pronged campaign to discredit LW or anyone who believed in Larry Warren’s account.
They claimed to have ‘overwhelming evidence’ of LW’s lies about his involvement, or lack of it as they claim, in the Rendlesham Forest incident, that he had forged/altered some of his military documents, that he was an out and out fraud, being a regular dealer in ‘fake’ music memorabilia and that he had photoshopped a number of photographs with prominent musicians by placing himself into photographs with them.

That is not true either. What you have conveniently forgotten is that Alyson Dunlop is the organiser of the SPI Conference in Scotland. One where Peter Robbins and Larry Warren were billed to speak together. I said I was going to go to the conference and ask him why Adrian Bustinza said he left Warren in the field after taking cameras from people and then went off with Halt and the other and was with Halt all night, not with Warren until 4.30 am as is told in Left at East Gate. 


I wanted to know why Adrian said he was debriefed alone, not in an underground base with aliens, no mention of being gassed and bundled into a car and taken to an underground base with Larry Warren. I said I would submit my question before hand. Warren lied and told people I threatened his family. He then threatened to jump off stage and put my windpipe through my spine, he said you are a threat at this point... Interesting choice of words don't you think? Rip my throat out so I can't speak and he is threatened by a question? When friends said they would ask the question he threw out the you (whomever) which extends the threat to anyone who would ask that question too. 

 Obviously this caused some trouble for Alyson Dunlop who was the organiser. The event was cancelled by Glasgow University because of his threats and she almost didn't manage to secure another venue. She did in fact secure another venue, the conference went on without Warren who turned up anyway, a video with him in the car exists, he states "I will be speaking". He thought he could turn up and blag his way in with his crazy lady super fan routine. What he did do though was tell everyone I am a heroin addict and that I abuse my children, they live in filth, I scream and shout all the time and that he left because we were doing drugs in front of the kids. In actual fact that was Warren who was doing drugs, passing out and urinating on our sofa. Alyson released a statement in the end after seeing that Warren was telling people I was drunk on stage at 10am at the Rendlesham 2012 conference. USAF Captain Robert Salas stepped in at this point and said that was not true, he was the speaker after me and we went to lunch together. 


Alyson Dunlop Statement of Laryy Warrens's Conduct

Warren also told everyone he had given me the conference spot and that he had paid me. I did not take payment, I told them to put the money towards the other speakers. Also, Warren was not the organiser of the event, Gordy Goodger gave me the conference spot and has stated publicly that I was the only speaker who did not take payment or expenses for hotel accomodation. Alyson saw all this and realised what a mess she had been dragged into, she wrote a statement telling people of her awful experience with Warren who then turned on her and blamed her for him being banned and accused her of being in on some conspiracy, then put on a photo of her that "This bitch needs running off". You don't know this Gary because you don't look at my blogs, you say they are just opinion, you don't know because you weren't there because this has nothing to do with you and it had nothing to do with Capel Green, it didn't exist. YOU made it about yourself and Capel Green.

They said they had ‘so much evidence’ and claimed to be ‘legitimate’ UFO researchers that just wanted to ‘tell the truth’.

This is in fact true, no need for the '    ' only the one thing you keep getting wrong is saying I am a professional. A professional what? A professional Facebooker and blogger? I don't get paid, it is not a profession, it is my life. This is me living my life, talking about something that happened to me in my life. Now you are happening to me aren't you? You think you can smug rub this out of existence because you think you are professional. Sadly you fall far from that mark, as do I because I am NOT a professional. 


THE NATURE OF EVIDENCE:

There is one thing I can be very certain of with regard to the four main detractors of Larry Warren and that is that I GUARENTEE ( GUARANTEE GARY) that I am the only one with a factual and practical working knowledge of what police evidence is having served almost 24 years in the British Transport Police.

For almost 19 years I worked as a ‘Home Office’ trained Detective Constable (training in Birmingham at the Edgbaston Detective Training School). I was commended several times by my own Force and also by the West Yorkshire Police. I was also an Advanced Tier 3 interviewer of suspects and witnesses and have worked on many serious cases including murder, manslaughter and rape. In addition, I qualified in 2009 as an accredited detective of ‘Serious and Complex’ crime.
I think with the above experience I can legitimately analyse/interpret what constitutes actual evidence, evidence that would stand up to scrutiny in a British court of law.

You should be better at this then. Did you just accept the word of people who were accused of crimes? That is what you are doing now. Your due diligence is missing. 

Therefore, I will now summarize the evidence that the four detractors offered as ‘overwhelming evidence’ to an unsuspecting and ill-informed public and … researchers.

I will now provide evidence of your total ignorance and lack of critical thinking.

1. That Larry Warren is a fraud.

Correct, well done.

Now if some calls someone a fraud that infers to me as a former detective that the person accused has some kind of criminal conviction of a fraudulent nature.

Have you checked a data base to see if this is true or are you just saying that? How do you know he doesn't have a criminal record? What about court orders against him to pay back money he obtained fraudulently by selling fake items in auction? What about him going bankrupt for that very thing? How do you KNOW Warren has no convictions for anything? You are not a police officer anymore, did you get someone to do an illegal search for you? Have you checked court records etc, both in the UK and USA? Speaking to memorabilia guys, they knew about Warren 25 years ago. They tell me it is notoriously difficult to secure a conviction in memorabilia forgery because of the disclaimers the auctioneers have and the buyer beware laws that exist. You have to prove it was knowingly sold as a forgery, that is IF a victim of said crime has discovered their loss. There are many criminals who have never been convicted. The Crown Prosecution Service have to have sufficient evidence to prosecute, you know all about that because you lost vital evidence in a rape case didn't you? The rapist got away with it, they couldn't take him to court without the evidence, but Warren is being taken to court in a private prosecution now isn't he? 

FACT: Larry Warren has never been arrested or charged with any fraudulent offence.

You do not KNOW that as a fact. 

Conclusion: to say that of him or anyone without such an arrest or charge for fraud actually commits SLANDER against the person.

It is LIBEL. That is very basic stuff 


2. Handwriting analysis compiled by James Welsh proves that Larry Warren tampered with some of his military records by impersonating military personnel using his own writing instead.
When James Welsh sent me his handwriting analysis in August 2016 and before looking at it I said to him, “Are you a police accredited handwriting expert,” to which he replied, “No.” I then told him that in a court of law his analysis proved nothing whatsoever and was ‘evidentially’ inadmissible because he was not a police accredited handwriting expert’.

That is correct James is not an expert, neither are you. You cannot say whether it is fake or not because you don't know anything about it either. 


Conclusion: His analysis is not worth the paper it is written on in terms of actual evidence in a court of law.

Absolutely true! Neither is yours! However, if this were to be put in front of a judge, which I pray to God every day that happens, they would have cause for concern. The other thing is, we have that analysis now. Not by James, not by myself, by a PROFESSIONAL Gary! The very thing you said was needed! Duane Carleton was Warren's friend in the 90's. From 1993 to be precise. You know, when Warren says he worked for Atlantic Records for 20 years and other recording studios in the business, how come he was bumming around Rutland, Vermont giving away dodgy memorabilia? He gave Duane a leather jacket, the one he is wearing in the photo you brandish around in the video you did with him on the sofa. That jacket has a story... 

Warren states; It was signed by Stevie Ray Vaughan in 1986 when Warren was working as a tour publicist on the Now and Zen tour for Robert Plant, the day after he was Artist Coordinator for Atlantic Records 40th Birthday Party in Madison Square Gardens. One night Stevie Ray Vaughan and Robert Plant played at the same venue on the same night. Warren says in New York City. Problem is, it is signed Stevie Ray Vaughn 1986. That gig didn't happen in NYC in 1986, it happened in Connecticut in 1988 and it is spelled "Vaughan" not "Vaughn". Warren mentions this jacket to Duane in a personal letter he wrote to Duane. Duane also has a letter of authenticity signed Rene Martinez, weirdly Rene has the same spelling mistakes as Warren and his handwriting is practically identical. We CAN have those items analysed and we will. The jacket was analysed PROFESSIONALLY and has been deemed to be a forgery by said professional. When the professional found out what the issue was, he further confirmed with with a total of nine authenticators. It IS a forgery, it was Warren's jacket, there are photos of him wearing it and he mentions it in the personal letter to Duane. Undeniable. That paper is worth the jacket's weight in gold. 

The Larry Warren Fraud Irrefutable PROOF compiled by Duane Carleton

3. Larry Warren sold bogus music memorabilia through various auctions houses in the UK.
Whilst I have not looked in depth as this claim I have found no evidence to date to corroborate this allegation. As stated earlier, he has never been arrested or charged with any kind of fraud offence which would apply here if people had complained to the police over the years.

There is endless evidence of this. 

Larry Warren Auction Items (needs updating with the past three years items)
Larry Warren Auction Sales (also needs updating)

Further, I have seen documentary evidence (anything written in a document in police/court jargon) that supports the legitimacy of his legitimate memorabilia dealings over a number of years. Note: This ‘evidence’ will be presented in due course and will be covered with the release of the Capel Green film in 2019.

Looking forward to that

Conclusion: I find there is no evidence to support this allegation against Larry Warren.

Because you have not looked. You just said, you have not looked. HOW can you reach this conclusion without even looking? That is NOT due dilligence, it is NOT research , it is in fact a decision made by you because you think you are right. You are totally wrong. I am so glad you said all this. "I haven't looked, my conclusion is, there is no evidence". You CAN find it, in my blogs.

4. That he has produced a number of ‘photoshopped’ photographic images where he placed himself alongside a number of famous music celebrities.

Taken from Warren's own Facebook page, not his old one, the one he uses now. 

What is going on with the wall in the background? 

Same head as in the images below. 

Fact: I have recently viewed a batch of ORIGINAL music celebrity photographs where Larry is beside the said music celebrity/celebrities.

Wrong again. As you can clearly see, these images have been tampered with, but they have been uploaded onto Warren's Facebook account as real and have been uploaded recently too. 

Whilst I am not a big music/rock fan I believe that the photographs are genuine and will be the subject of a video release in January 2019 where the originals will be shown and examined.
Conclusion: To date – I have found no evidence to corroborate the allegation that he has photo-shopped celebrity photographs.

You are not an expert, you do not even know what EXIF data is or how it cannot be manipulated without leaving evidence of manipulation. You are not qualified to make these claims, just as you said James and myself are not qualified.  

However, there is one thing I should add here. I have found some circumstantial evidence to suggest that a number of other people who have been involved in the campaign to discredit him may have created a number of images themselves and have circulated them in an attempt to give the impression to people that they had been made by Larry Warren.

Accusing people of setting him up. Why do you have reason to believe this? Because he told you? Great detective work. He told Peter Robbins the Lennon sketch was real and that he is 19 in that photo. He posted the other onto Facebook himself and still claims they are real. Where is your evidence of this? How can you say the images are manipulated when he is using them and calling them real. How can they be fake and real? 

My Open Letter to Peter Robbins discussing the Lennon Image.

Summary Conclusion of the evidence presented by the four ‘researchers’
Based on the four main allegations made against Larry Warren – NONE ARE FACTUALLY CORRECT!

All I can say to that is utter bollocks Gary. You just decide things and think you are right. Blatantly you are not. 

Let’s move on.

I wish you would move along, this has nothing to do with you. You are just an egomaniac who wants to be Graham Birdsall, but you couldn't live up to one of his turds.

Extract: Following the exposure of the fraud, Warren's co-author disassociated himself from their previous collaboration, and his publisher terminated distribution of his book, in view of the "inaccurate or embellished" content.

Correct... Although it is much more serious than that. Warren singled Peter out and a MUFON meeting, he wasn't a writer. Peter states in an early BUFORA video that he had to train himself. He then systematically lied to Peter for decades. 

Now on the face it some people might think that this proves that his detractors were right all along, after all, Larry Warren’s co-author, Peter Robbins (of Left at East Gate) ended his association with him after approximately 28 years citing that their relationship had ‘broken down’ after it became ‘clear’ to him that Warren had been lying on a number of issues throughout their long collaboration period.

All true.

As I have stated before on this aspect. Is Peter Robbins really admitting that he had issues with Larry’s honesty over the course of 28 years and did nothing for 28 years having travelled the world and written three books totally backing his account! Really Peter?

Where did he say that? Produce where he said those words. Peter has had to admit he was wrong about Warren, yes he has had issues with him in the past, they are documented. There is an instance in You Can't Tell The People where Warren had to admit that he faked his hypnosis session, you know the one he never mentions because he faked it? Admitted to faking it and that that was the very first time he mentioned aliens, in a faked hypnosis session. Fred Max...... ring any bells Gary? Peter was quoted in Georgina Bruni's book as having told her Warren lied, he forgave him because he believed him, just as you do now. You are doing the same thing Peter did. Even YOU know he has lied.

That said PR wrote to their publisher ‘Cosimo Books’ highlighting to them that the book may contain some inaccurate information, supplied by Warren and that it should be withdrawn from public sale. In October 2017 and quite rightly, the publisher responded to this by suspending further publication/distribution of the book stating that it would conduct its own investigation to determine if there were factual grounds to withdraw it permanently.

Around the same time Larry Warren also wrote to the publisher saying that he too wanted the book permanently removed because he was not happy with aspects of it stating that it had become somewhat ‘dated’.

So, what are the real facts:

Fact: As a result of Peter Robbins request for the book to be withdrawn Cosimo Books ‘temporarily suspended’ Left At East Date citing they would be conducting an internal investigation into the claims made by PR.

In October Cosimo announced suspension.

Fact: Cosimo Books announced on 22nd January 2018 that the book had been permanently withdrawn at the request of BOTH authors (see below).

In November Warren said pull it, but not until 20 days after it had been suspended

Fact: In withdrawing the book permanently Cosimo Books made no mention of the result of any internal investigation regarding the claims made by PR.

Cosimo Suspends Left at East Gate (blog)

Fact: In withdrawing the book permanently Cosimo Books did not state at ANY time that it was being withdrawn on the grounds of it being ‘inaccurate or embellished’ as Nick Pope claims in the email.

Wrong again. It says it on the announcement above. I thought you were an investigator? YOU are the professional are you not? How did you miss that? 

Conclusion of the Nick Pope line of text - it was factually very inaccurate.

Conclusion of the Gary Heseltine line of text - it is factually very, very inaccurate.

Now having met Larry Warren many times over the years and based on my police background as an Advanced interviewer I have always believed that his Capel Green account was true and it is because of that, that I decided to become involved in the Capel Green documentary.

You decided to do it because you have met him many times? Advanced interviewer is laughable. Your interview with Warren on the sofa last week proved you do not employ any advanced interview techniques.

Now whilst Peter Robbins and his relationship with Larry Warren has broken down I always believed that Peter stood by Larry’s account of his involvement in the RFI 100%. Now that would be significant if true.

Well it isn't true though is it? Not anymore, So... pointless remark. 

Therefore, I now reveal an email from Peter in January 2017 (and significantly after the cessation of his working collaboration to Larry Warren) to my wife and I where he addresses that very issue:
So, LW deserved the award from the magazine, that LW was there (i.e. in the forest and his account was accurate), that he did have the courage to stand up as a witness for years when no one else would, and yes he was the first true sustained whistleblower, no question and finally that there was a mob out there who want to feed Larry to the sharks!

Larry IS the shark. Steve Roberts was the first person to talk about the event to Brenda. Larry was not the first person. He says in this he is not the first, he is just the loudest. You would know this if you knew anything. It is written is Skycrash too. Conveniently forgotten. The women already knew all about it and so this would have come out and did come out because of Brenda Butler Jenny Randles  and Dot Street, also Bobb Todd who actually got the memo out. He deserved an award for the biggest balls in ufology to lie to the extent he has, is amazing. Courage? In the face of Sacha Christie, or is it because ALL the detractors over the past, almost 40 years, as there are MANY.

Need I say more on that issue.

Well you probably could but then you would be making a bigger fool of yourself.

Let’s move on:

Extract: Despite being touted as a documentary about the Rendlesham Forest incident, Capel Green seems to be an attempt to rebrand the Larry Warren fraud, perhaps trying to sell it to people who are unaware that the story was proved to be bogus.

True

Response: Capel Green is not being ‘touted’ as a documentary about the Rendlesham Forest incident – it is a legitimate documentary about the RFI. How do I know that? Because I am the co-writer so I can vouch for its content personally.

Yes we know, but the content is inaccurate. Nothing happened on Capel Green. That isn't even Capel Green. It is a large area called Capel St Andrews, Capel Green is at the other side. Over the road, further away from the field where only Warren says anything happened. This actually ties in with what he said to me, to my face , in my home. "It wasn't there it was at the other side, I got mixed up. I thought I had found the right tree but I got mixed up, it was at the other side", when I questioned various locations he replied "You haven't seen it" (the location). I stated this right at the start of alkl of this. It was this and his confession about taking Adrian bustinzas account aht alerted me, that and the fact he tried to wipe Brenda, dot and Jenny out of the picture because someone wanted to make a film about his event. He wanted to be king of the hill and you are curtrently helping him do that. 

Capel Green is behind where Warren says it is.

Capel Green will FACTUALLY examine the Larry Warren account in detail i.e. that there was a landed craft in a farmer’s field, that numerous security police personnel were present to witness it, that three ‘entities’ were seen ‘floating’ beside it, that a number of senior US officers arrived and one of them had a close proximity ‘face off’ with the entities and that the event was ‘filmed on both cine film and on an early video camera.

HOW are you going to do that? Has Warren fixed his time machine? What EVIDENCE can you base this on?? Utter tosh Gary. 

In addition, it will also FACTUALLY tell the story of the rest of the incidents involved over several successive nights in late December 1980.

How? You can't talk about Halt, use his tape or his memo, John Burroughs doesn't want to know you, Jim Penniston stated recently you are using his intellectual property without permission. Nobody likes you, the only people you have managed to scrape together are people who were not there that night, nor did they experience anything on Capel Green. 

What you have done is dragged a pile of  genuine witnesses to seperate events on different, nights in different places, different years, into a lie to try and make it look like Warren is telling the truth. Nobody disbelieves the other witnesses, they are valid in their own right. You should have just made a documentary about them and the area instead of trying to capitalise on Warren's lies and the attention this is receiving. You are dragging those people to hell with you. 

Note: During the course of my research for the documentary I have gathered a lot of new FACTUAL evidence (both witness testimony and documentary evidence (a legal police term for anything written in a document) that has never been revealed to the public in any documentary made about the RFI to date.

How can memories be used as evidential facts? You are going to PROVE aliens landed on Capel Green are you? Can't wait for that.


I guarantee much of this new evidence will attain great importance to the development of the case.
So, the reality is there is no ‘attempt to rebrand the Larry Warren fraud’ – all of what will be presented will be fact-based.

This is exactly what it is. A rebranding of the RFI, not a rebranding of The Larry Warren Fraud. None of the other witnesses want anything to do with it. How can you say that? 

Surely that’s a good thing, isn’t it?

No, it is a con.

Let’s move on.

Extract: It's not clear whether the filmmakers simply haven't done their due diligence, or whether they're aware of Warren's lies but simply don't care that they're promoting a false narrative.
Either way, the UFO community is getting understandably annoyed at what looks like an attempt to con them a second time with the same bogus story.

Absolutely true

Response: I guarantee I have done my due diligence and suspect that those that are seeking to smear Capel Green HAVE NOT!

Wrong again Gary

The film will only be based on facts. End of.

Outrageous claim to make.  

The facts that I have gathered will fully confirm the legitimacy of Larry Warren’s account so therefore it can’t be promoting a ‘false narrative’ if it is factually true.

You are repeating yourself. Saying FACT over and over doesn't make it true. 

Also, I see no real evidence that the UFO Community is getting ‘annoyed at what looks like an attempt to con them a second time with the same bogus story’.

You must be blind, deaf and dumb then OR you simply have refused to look at anything I, or anyone else says.

In fact, a number of people who Nick Pope emailed have contacted me personally to let me know what he had sent them. That says much for ‘the UFO community’ being ‘annoyed’.

I bet they are totally blown away by your whinge then and publishing their names. You really should have removed Andre's name from the top of the email because now we know where it came from. You do not protect anyone do you? You drag them into things and throw it out to the public, just like Warren..


What is apparent is that most people, genuine people, who have an interest in the case have found the last two to three years of infighting and smearing highly damaging and a detriment to the overall credibility of the RFI case.

Most people? Utterly ridiculous. Most people!! Have you done a head count? A survey? You can't speak for anyone but yourself. If MOST people are supportive why were you shouting at people for not supporting you at the Awakening conference in June 2018?

I think all people really want is the FACTS and I and the Director of Capel Green are going to give those facts to them and let the evidence FALL WHERE IT FALLS.
FURTHER CONCLUSIONS

Evidence. Can't wait. 

Where is the evidence of the due diligence made by Nick Pope to determine the veracity of the ‘allegations’ made by the four ‘researchers’?

He has eyes, he can see, you haven't looked, you say this is all crazy fan stuff and that everyone is blinded by me. Nope. they have looked at the collection of videos of Warren telling different versions, he has seen the evidence of the others before me. It is all on my blog, that is where it is. The thing you refuse to look at.

At any point has he contacted me personally about the nature of the allegations against Larry Warren? Answer – NO.

Yes, quite a few people did. I know James did, I sent you all those photos proving the A10 photo was actually supposed to be colour. You have been told by lots of people, you even shouted at some of them for not supporting you, in fact you shouted that nobody had supported you. You were told because you are wrong, that is why you shouted. So, you are lying.

At any point has he contacted to ask about the evidence I have accumulated to confirm the Larry Warren account? – NO.

Why would anyone do that? Why would they contact you when all you have done is shout at people and be an arrogant man to them all. Bullying me for swearing when I was furious about the lies, spreading lies about ME Gary Heseltine. You are guilty of all the crimes you accuse myself and others of. You even had the worst of the shows you did deleted because what you did are classed as hate crimes, malicious communications and LIBEL. Did YOU interview me? Peter? Anyone? 

What is clear is that far from scrutinizing the actual evidence, Nick Pope has simply taken the word of – Warren’s detractors, from people with clear a clear agenda, with not a jot of real investigative skills between them, to discredit LW without corroborating the information they put forward himself.
This inevitably does not reflect well on the ‘man from the MOD UFO desk’ so you have to ask the question – What is his motive for promoting a series of unsubstantiated allegations made against Larry Warren?

What is clear is that YOU haven't looked at the evidence. NOBODY has taken my WORD for it, they looked at the evidence and made up their minds themselves. I haven't coerced anyone into believing me. 

I think a logical case can be made for believing that his vehement opposition to the Capel Green documentary is based probably on a level of ‘fear’ at what the documentary may reveal to the general public about the true nature of the events that took place in and around Rendlesham Forest the twin bases of RAF Woodbridge and RAF Bentwaters.

YOU made this about you and Capel Green. Capel Green is just a bubble of money making nonsense I don't even care about that. Get on with it, it will be easy to debunk. The Warren parts anyway. The rest I believe and always have. It will reveal nothing new. 

Note: He was asked to give an interview about his criticism of the film by Dion Johnson, the Director and he refused to comment and walked hastily away from him. Talk about standing firm with the conviction of your criticism!

Wow to this. Laughable. He isn't giving you his attention therefore, big conspiracy. 


FURTHER BACKGROUND

Nick and I have known each other for many years. For most of them we have been polite and affable in each other’s company with no ill feelings whatsoever. That said I have made it clear on a number of occasions publicly and not least over dinner to him personally that I believe that he was a ‘plant’ into the UFO community by the MOD in the late 90s.


However, the nature of our relationship changed dramatically when I stated publicly my support for Larry Warren’s Capel Green account?

Because Warren is a liar, this has been proven over and over and over and because of your gross behaviour and support of a man who threatens peoples lives. It was proven way before you joined in. You joined in to say the A10 photograph was legitimate, you made a massive deal about it and then had to admit it wasn't genuine!

How did our relationship change?

You backed a liar who threatens women and trashes their lives. 


Simple – he began via social media i.e. Facebook to publicly criticize me for supporting the Larry Warren ‘fraud’. For example - See this FB quote from January 2018 where he said I might face criminal or civil charges for attempting to defraud the UFO community!

We live in hope. But all I have to do is carry on with this book. You will go down with Warren as being the worst investigator in the history of humanity. 

Again, it begs the obvious question - ‘why is he so vehemently’ opposed to anyone who supports the LW account?

Because he has trampled on the lives of all the witnesses, you are now enabling that, and because he is a liar and it looks like you are now. You cannot keep up this pretense that there is no evidence of his lies. You haven't looked, you say it is opinion while spewing your opinion all over everyone saying they are facts. 

At this point I also want to state that it is clear that he is fully supporting Colonel Halt, famous for the ‘Halt Memorandum’, in backing Halt’s ‘slanderous’ attacks against Larry Warren and anyone who supports his account.

You literally have no idea of the law. It is Libel and the truth is never libel

This is no coincidence.



THE REAL NATURE OF THE ‘RESEARCHERS’ AND THEIR LINKS TO COLONEL HALT AND NICK POPE

Now it is at this point that I need to illustrate the nature of the people that both Colonel Halt and Nick Pope are promoting as ‘genuine researchers’ who purport to be simply on a quest for the ‘truth’.
This does not make good reading for them.

Why? - Because all four of these ‘researchers’ have been involved in the most hideous form of slurs and slander against myself, UFO Truth Magazine and most of all toward Larry Warren.
By way of evidencing this I will give you some examples:

You glued yourself onto my life and expect to be treated with dignity when you state this is all a fatal attraction thing. The best you have is to make people think I am broken and weird, take my blogs apart, tell me where I am wrong. 

Sacha Christie - about me on Facebook: Gary is a fat pig, vagina, liar, conman, fraud, a misogynist fucktard…… and believe me much, much worse has been said by her.

I said you needed a kick in the vagina when you were crying about how horrible I am. I may have called you a fucktard at some point, I will have meant it too. I have said much much more about you yes, all of it true. You are a misogynistic arrogant bully who is utterly clueless to the facts, it is your opinion that my words are opinion. You can't even see you are all the things you accuse others of. You are vile. You are guilty of hate crimes, you are guilty of Libel and defamation too. I think you are a horrible person and a terrible investigator, you are morally reprehensible and a repugnant human being. That is my opinion of you. 

However, for sheer vile content look no further that this about Larry Warren from her.

Please look at my content of Warren, it is vile because his acts are abhorrent, demonic in fact. Here are some screenshots of the kind of rhetoric you are ignoring while pointing the finger at me. Keep scrolling, I have more to say after this album of poison.

Warren handed my address out to people while suggesting I am a terrorist. In fact in his recent video interview on the sofa he actually calls me the terrorist.

He gave my address to this guy. I did not have his address but he got mine from Warren

How is that for sheer hipocrisy?

I think the kind of language used here is truly horrifying yet you and I are expected to regard her as a serious and legitimate UFO researcher?

I am a UFO witness actually, there were six witnesses to the event and I agree about the horrific language being used by the people who support Warren and Warren himself. 

Nope, never asked that of anybody. You keep putting those titles on me so you can take them off as if it is something legitimate you are doing. The fact you have repeated the lies of Warren about me on a tour of radio shows for the sole purpose of debasing me, the consequence is that you are in fact disrgarded in many people eyes as a legitimate researcher now. I never claimed to be professional. Never have, in fact I am sick of telling people I am not a professional anything. I am definitely not a UFO researcher, I do not research anything to do with UFOs. I saw one with friends and I have no idea if it was terrestrial or otherwise, as you say.. End of. 

Not me. I find this a disgrace and somewhat unsettling. Now you would have thought such extreme words and behaviour would have alerted Colonel Halt and Nick Pope to the ‘extreme’ nature of her ‘research’ and perhaps thought better on using her and the others involved as a ‘genuine’ source of truthful information on Larry Warren but no, they clearly don’t mind this aspect and have decided to keep using her

This is all assumption, you are speaking on behalf of other people, you do not read my blogs, you have them cherry picked for you by someone who is happy to carry on enabling Warren and now yourself when the facts are plain to see by anyone who looks at them. 


GH - Note – the blank areas are too graphic to show

This is one of the things that made me laugh. Are you protecting grown men from a woman swearing? Oh purlease! 

‘unsubstantiated allegations’ to maintain the attack on Larry Warren’s credibility and his Capel Green account. This is a disgrace in my opinion.

I have subtantiated everything with endless examples of Warren in his own words lying. You have not looked at any of them. That way you can carry on the pretense to yourself that I am a mental case and my words have no basis in fact. 

David Young about me on Facebook: Gary is a liar, conman, fraud, bastard… to name but a few.
James Welsh about me on Facebook: Gary is a liar, conman, fraud and a blind bullying bastard… to name but a few.

You are though....... 

Alyson Dunlop about me on Facebook: Gary is a disgrace, a dick-tator, a dodgy SOB… to name but a few.

You are though..... In fact you are much much worse than anything any of us have called you. 

I can prove much, much more of their FB ‘trolling’ and their use of vile and disgraceful unsubstantiated comments – by using their OWN WORDS taken from screengrabs from their own respective FB postings that I collated and published over a year ago in the form of a PDF document called ‘Winter is Here’ than anyone can obtain a copy of by simply emailing me at:

You have a folder of facebook posts of gossip to send people as a PDF. Are you five years old? I have a blog.. anyone can read it any time. If you want to ask me any questions my email address is sacha.ufo@gmail.com Winter is here? LOL, It is "Winter's come" if that is a GOT reference! One thing you should realise Gary is that I don't bend at the knee. 

heseltinegary@hotmail.com


CONFIRMATION THAT CHRISTIE WAS HALT’S SOURCE FOR HIS BOOK

This was NEVER a secret. I have said it in public many times. Col Halt has included my evidence in his talks with full visuals. 

Note: At that time Colonel Halt first made me aware that he had a new source that would discredit Larry Warren completely I did not know who that source was though I did have my suspicions and in due course it was confirmed who that source was – none other that Sacha Christie herself who confirmed this to be true in her own FB postings taken from one of her many FB profile pages.

Wrong again, I sent him everything myself. I sent him a lot of stuff and still do to this day. The book was also written by John Hanson who is a friend and supporter. This is not news Gary. It did not need any training as a detective to work that out, especially when I have actually stated numerous times I sent Halt and still send him all my findings. 

So, there you have it in her own words ‘my bit was about the lies of Larry Warren’.

Yep... I stand by my words. I take responsibility for all the things I said in the past while fighting Warren's fights for him when he couldn't handle being caught out. I take responsibility for being wrong about him and helping him trample all over everyones lives, especially Adrian Bustinza and John Burroughs who's story he has rewritten as himself. Yes I will cover that in the free ebook I am producing.  

Now having proof of her being Halt’s source for the ‘evidence’ against Larry Warren was one thing but I didn’t expect him to admit who is source was himself but he did this when the Director of the Capel Green film emailed him to see if he was willing to be interviewed for the documentary.
In rejecting the offer to take part in the documentary he directed Dion to the ‘evidence’ gathered by Sacha Christie – a clear admission of their association and that she was his source. Thus, we have proof of confirmation two ways that she was the source of the ‘allegations’ against Larry Warren.
In that vein it should be noted that Christie received a copy of the book signed ‘Best Wishes from Nick Pope’.

It wasn't an admission, there was nothing to admit. Nobody hid anything, why are you getting your Y fronts in a twist over it? It was never a secret. If you were paying attention instead of cherry picking, you would know this. Also this is the bit that really made me laugh. Nobody sent me a book signed! I don't even have a copy of the book in print!!!  This is where you fall flat on your face and prove you just make stuff up or believe gossip. I was sent a print of the cover of the book signed by Col Halt with A STICKER on it signed by Nick Pope. You are absolutely wrong wrong wrong. 

FINAL CONCLUSIONS

The behaviour of the four individuals and the backing of their claims by Colonel Halt and Nick Pope is nothing short of a disgrace and show a clear, collective campaign to discredit Larry Warren and anyone who supports his Capel Green account at all costs.

Actually the truth of the matter is this. Larry Warren is a proven liar and this is a systematic campaign to discredit me, Nick and anyone else who would dare to challenge the narrative of a man who has been caught out in lies for decades, he has even admitted to some of those lies. The other thing is you should listen to the show he did with Tino Magero about one year ago where he makes claims and then in the video with you recently, makes different claims, he never sticks to the same story, something is different in every telling. I am now systematically gathering a lot of those moments and am making a video collage of Warren telling those different events. I have made numerous blogs doing the same thing. It is all his own words, his facebook posts, forum posts, videos, lectures, radio shows, youtube streams. It is all HIM speaking. We have absolute evidence of forgery too. 

The fact that I feel the need to respond to Nick’s email represents a pretty sad day for Ufology as it clearly shows to me that not enough genuine researchers are doing their own ‘due diligence’ with regards to material submitted to them by the likes of Nick Pope and Colonel Halt.

By the likes of a distinguished military Colonel, because the likes of a failed USAF airman and officer who policed trains is a much higher standard of personage. It is indeed a sad day for ufology and humanity when someone like you can just railroad people for your own gain. I dearly hope there are consequences for you one day. Legal ones. If I was wealthy you would already be suffering those consequences. I have been offered money to take you to court but I have refused. I know I can prove Warren is a liar and I already have. Nothing he says can be trusted and since you have taken this bombastic approach to it all and have tried to destroy what you think, I think is my professional reputation, that makes you the problem. I care about the truth, not reputation. 

This was NEVER about YOU Gary Heseltine, it was NEVER about Capel Green. This is about something that happened in MY LIFE by someone who you wanted very little to do with until this all kicked off. When all his encouraged bullies fell away, you stepped in and now you cry because you don't feel like this situation is fair. Well my advice to you is next time you see a situation between two people, don't try and monopolise it. Keep your nose out of it. It is nothing to do with you. 

Capel Green is a con. If you had made it about the area and the other people you have dragged into this mess, then nobody would have the slightest issue with you or the film. 

To blindly ‘accept’ allegations of such a serious nature ‘without question’ does not reflect well on some of those people who are regarded by many as senior UFO researchers.

YOU are the person who is blindly accepting allegations and lies. Go through my research and point by point tell me where I am wrong rather than gossiping. I dare you. Read Open Letter to Gary Heseltine. Read Question Time for Gary Heseltine. Read the auction items and auction sales blogs. Read the blog Duane wrote. 

Open Letter to Gary Heseltine

Question Time for Gary Heseltine

GARY HESELTINE - December 2018

SACHA CHRISTIE  Februry 2019.

Adrian Bustinza thanks me and talks about Brothers taking credit and ownership for something others experienced. In other words someone who wasn't even there taking ownership of the event for glory.

Then there is this. You said Dave has qualifications in IT. No he doesn't. He is, and has been, a telecoms engineer for 27 years, prior to that he was a fully qualified tool maker. Where do you get your information from? Why do you say these things as if you KNOW? 

Nobody did anything to any of those photos, they are in situ, on Dave's laptop that Larry used, he didn't have one of his own, he uploaded them. The information states these are Larry's pics 2011. It is IMPOSSIBLE to upload/download something then change the date in properties. You really did show yourself up there. 

So here you are mentioning our home again and telling people we manipulated the images and have uploaded them onto the net saying Warren did it. Blatantly not, those EXACT IMAGES are on his current Facebook page, HE uploaded them to his new account after his last one was allegedly hacked. Something you accused us of!!! WHY would we do that? Why wouldn't we go through his profile with a fine toothed comb tracing the times and dates of uploads? He screamed about his Facebook page being hacked, but the thing is Gary, all you have to do to get your profile back is prove to Facebook who you are and they reset the password. WHY didn't he do that? The ONLY person that benefitted was Warren himself because it hid all of his past behaviour and lies. 

Here is the latest liathon by Gary Heseltine as he enables the Larry Warren Fraud making him fully complicit. He states he has seen photos of Warren at Ground Zero, in his capacity as an expert in the steel industry. Fully complicit in fraud. 

End of.